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Hondo's Daybill Q&A [Re-Titled]

HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
edited August 2015 in Australian
I wish to share my many years of Australian film research with having any questions on daybills in particular fielded to me but also any posters, banned films in Australia, film distributors or anything in fact regarding distribution of posters and films in Australia. I welcome any inquiries large or small.
Post edited by Charlie on
Lawrence
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Comments

  • SvenSven Member Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    First enquiry! Why is From Russia with Love such a rare daybill? How can it be rarer than the first Dr No daybill?
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector

    Sven I meant questions I can answer not hard ones. I need ones that I don't have to speculate on too much but I often don't mind in doing this anyway. I have a feeling John may have published something on this topic on his website some time ago. When John gets to read this he may offer his opinion.

    Ask me a question like are there many W.E. Smith daybills from the 1950s that had the almost same designs in artwork copied for certain MGM titles in the early 1960s by another printer for re-releases? 

    Lawrence
  • MattMatt Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 5,158 admin

    The hard ones??? Sven asked a fair question. You started the topic and it doesn't mean you have to answer every question. Great topic!

    Anyone can jump in.

  • SvenSven Member Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    I do have another question then...are there many W.E. Smith daybills from the 1950s that had the almost same designs in artwork copied for certain MGM titles in the early 1960s by another printer for re-releases? Why was this?
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    edited June 2015
    Matt said:

    The hard ones??? Sven asked a fair question. You started the topic and it doesn't mean you have to answer every question. Great topic!

    Anyone can jump in .The more the merrier.

    Ask any questions you like. I was only joking with Sven. I will never know all the answers to questions I may be asked. If I know the facts I will share them with you and give my opinion and if at times I want to speculate I wiil do so. .In the case of the From Russia With Love question I don't have much of an idea and that is why I thought it a good idea for perhaps John to give his opinion as I am pretty sure he has commented on this topic once before. Anything is hard if you don't know the answer and to me the question doesn't have a definite answer.
    Post edited by David on
    Lawrence
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Sven said:
    I do have another question then...are there many W.E. Smith daybills from the 1950s that had the almost same designs in artwork copied for certain MGM titles in the early 1960s by another printer for re-releases? Why was this?

    :))
    Chris
  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,254 admin
    Sven said:
    I do have another question then...are there many W.E. Smith daybills from the 1950s that had the almost same designs in artwork copied for certain MGM titles in the early 1960s by another printer for re-releases? Why was this?
    No repeat questions... :P
    David
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector


    Sven said:
    I do have another question then...are there many W.E. Smith daybills from the 1950s that had the almost same designs in artwork copied for certain MGM titles in the early 1960s by another printer for re-releases? Why was this?


    I am glad you asked this question Sven.

    I don't know why this happened but I can give you a list of the titles that fall into this category.

    DEEP IN MY HEART

    HIGH SOCIETY

    I'LL CRY TOMORROW

    RHAPSODY

    SEVEN BRIDES FOR SEVEN BROTHERS

    SHOWBOAT

    The first five listed were printed by Advertising And Commercial ( A. & C. ) and most likely re-released sometime between 1960 & 1962.

    Showboat was printed by Chromo Print and  most likely re-released 1959 or even possibly early 1960.

    If you have any of the six titles in your collection  and believe you have an original if it W.E.Smith printed breath easy now but if it is a A. & C. or Chromo Print it is definitely a re-release.

    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Just realised there is also  a THE STUDENT PRINCE daybill printed by A.& C. that would have been re-released sometime between 1960 & 1962 .I have never been able to find an image from the original release but I firmly believe it would have most likely have been printed by  W.E.Smith as well and I  think the design was most likely the same.
    Lawrence
  • SvenSven Member Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    What are some of the last titles that Richardson Sudio designed?

    Did they come to a  sudden  stop or slowed gradually?
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Sven said:
    What are some of the last titles that Richardson Sudio designed?

    Did they come to a  sudden  stop or slowed gradually?

    I don't wish to give a brief answer so I will take a little time to organise a more detailed reply for you including titles I have listed somewhere but need to locate to give you a more accurate list than what springs to my mine at present.
    Lawrence
  • SvenSven Member Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Thanks hondo appreciate it and look forward to your response. 
  • BruceBruce Member, Captain Movie Poster Posts: 895 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    Why do some daybills have some of the best poster art ever seen (including, but not at all limited to the Richardson Studio daybills) while others have art that no third grader would do during a one hour art class?
    We (eMoviePoster.com) hold 3,000 auctions a week, 138,000 a year.
    See all of our current auctions in one gallery here: http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/all.html
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Brilliant question for me to ponder. Will get back to you with my thoughts soon.
    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    HONDO said:
    Sven said:
    What are some of the last titles that Richardson Sudio designed?

    Did they come to a  sudden  stop or slowed gradually?

    I don't wish to give a brief answer so I will take a little time to organise a more detailed reply for you including titles I have listed somewhere but need to locate to give you a more accurate list than what springs to my mine at present.

    Coming together well but need to do a little more work on this but the result will appear soon.
    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Bruce said:
    Why do some daybills have some of the best poster art ever seen (including, but not at all limited to the Richardson Studio daybills) while others have art that no third grader would do during a one hour art class?

    Before I answer are the poor daybills you mention the duotone daybills only such as Dunkirk and Godzilla or does your observation include also full colour first release daybills. If any full  colour daybills are included pleases let me know the names of a half a dozen titles. Once I hear back I will answer your question to the best of my knowledge. 
    Lawrence
  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,254 admin
    Bruce said:
    Why do some daybills have some of the best poster art ever seen (including, but not at all limited to the Richardson Studio daybills) while others have art that no third grader would do during a one hour art class?
    Surely not a question that only Lawrence can answer because it's simply a matter of personal taste.


    David
  • JohnJohn Member, Dealer Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    HONDO said:
    HONDO said:
    Sven said:
    What are some of the last titles that Richardson Sudio designed?

    Did they come to a  sudden  stop or slowed gradually?

    I don't wish to give a brief answer so I will take a little time to organise a more detailed reply for you including titles I have listed somewhere but need to locate to give you a more accurate list than what springs to my mine at present.

    Coming together well but need to do a little more work on this but the result will appear soon.
    I have also done a bit of research on this and have some answers and examples. I will be interested to hear Hondo's thoughts.
    John

  • SvenSven Member Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Great john look forward to yours and hondos research 
  • BruceBruce Member, Captain Movie Poster Posts: 895 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    David said:
    Bruce said:
    Why do some daybills have some of the best poster art ever seen (including, but not at all limited to the Richardson Studio daybills) while others have art that no third grader would do during a one hour art class?
    Surely not a question that only Lawrence can answer because it's simply a matter of personal taste.


    I WAS addressing it to everyone.

    And Lawrence, the duotones are the worst, but a fair number of color ones have sketchy art where there is no resemblance to the actual stars.
    We (eMoviePoster.com) hold 3,000 auctions a week, 138,000 a year.
    See all of our current auctions in one gallery here: http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/all.html
  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,254 admin
    Bruce said:
    David said:
    Bruce said:
    Why do some daybills have some of the best poster art ever seen (including, but not at all limited to the Richardson Studio daybills) while others have art that no third grader would do during a one hour art class?
    Surely not a question that only Lawrence can answer because it's simply a matter of personal taste.


    I WAS addressing it to everyone.

    And Lawrence, the duotones are the worst, but a fair number of color ones have sketchy art where there is no resemblance to the actual stars.

    OK. Got confused as it was posted under Hondo's Daybill Q&A...  ;)

    There are some people here who collect the duotones (sad but true), I think we have a thread somewhere...probably mixed in with some other thread, might be a good idea to start one specifically.
    David
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector

    Bruce said:
    Why do some daybills have some of the best poster art ever seen (including, but not at all limited to the Richardson Studio daybills) while others have art that no third grader would do during a one hour art class?




    My first observation I will bring to light is by mentioning  examples from an Australian daybill and an Australian one sheet of the film A Countess From Hong Kong ( 1967 ) and both printed by the same printer Robert Burton. Great likenesses of Sophia Loren and Marlon Brando on the one sheet but absolutely terrible likenesses of them on the daybill  as they look more like Mari Blanchard and Rossano Brazzi. One drawn by a competent artist and the other by someone who shouldn't be employed in this field.

    Some printers particularly F. Cunninghame & Co. and Robert Burton on a whole never employed the best artists who were hard to find therefore overall their output suffered.

    Watching every penny when the toll television took on the film industry happened and this combined with a lack of good poster artists were in my mind a major contributing factor in the decline of Australian poster art starting in the 1950s. Duotone posters printed for major distributors for first release, re-release or second printings and a fair amount of posters printed for the smaller independents such as Blake, Regent ( RFD ), IFD & Ray Films, regardless of them being first release or re-release they weren't considered to be of much value so el cheapo versions were ordered from mainly unknown printers who were ashamed I imagine to have their names printed on the posters.

    Agree or not these are my thoughts.


    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    edited December 2015

    Sven said:
    What are some of the last titles that Richardson Sudio designed?

    Did they come to a  sudden  stop or slowed gradually?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Richardson Studios started in the 1920s and completed their last posters in 1960 when it was a clean stoppage of designing daybills for Paramount.

    The last three daybill  they produced as far as records I have show were released  as follows ---

    The Bellboy  ( released in Sydney August 19, 1960 )

     Man From God's Country ( released in Sydney August 19, 1960 )

    Women Are Weak ( this French film with French Dialogue and English subtitles would have most likely been printed in 1959 or1960 but due to a suitable theatre not being available and it's limited box office potential a release didn't happen until it was finally released in Sydney April 21, 1962 )


    Non Richardson printed Paramount daybills started being printed  and  released in Australia later in 1960 starting with the following.

    Psycho ( released in Sydney September 21, 1960 ) 

    G.I, Blues ( released in Sydney December 30, 1960 ) 

    then 1961 onwards.


    Lawrence
  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,254 admin
    HONDO said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Richardson Studios started in the 1920s and completed their last posters in 1960 when it was a clean stoppage of designing daybills for Paramount.

    The last three daybill  they produced as far as records I have show were released  as follows ---

    The Bellboy  ( released in Sydney August 19, 1960 )

    Man From God's Country ( released in Sydney August 19, 1960 )

    Women Are Weak ( this French film with French Dialogue and English subtitles would have most likely been printed in 1959 or1960 but due to a suitable theatre not being available and it's limited box office potential a release didn't happen until it was finally released in Sydney April 21, 1962 )

    or later...

    The Big Night premiered in Australia in 1961 - Richardson Studio for Paramount
    A Touch of Larceny (1960) was playing as late as 1963 - Richardson Studio for Paramount
    David
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector

    A Touch Of Larceny was first released in Sydney April 8, 1960. ( Sourced from The Film Weekly yearbook ) .

    The Big Night was first released in Sydney June 23, 1960.  ( Sourced from The Film Weekly yearbook ).

    Lawrence
  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,254 admin
    The Big Night was first released here in 1961: http://goo.gl/Jk3cJB and was also being shown elsewhere in 1961 so it is possible the poster was still in use or even reprinted for this release?

    David
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    David said:
    The Big Night was first released here in 1961: http://goo.gl/Jk3cJB and was also being shown elsewhere in 1961 so it is possible the poster was still in use or even reprinted for this release?


    Only limited paper resources available to view after 1954 and no Sydney city paper access and the releases in 1961 showing on Trove are Bourke, Canberra and Granville. A year later they would still be using the original Richardson Studio daybill. Interestingly the supporting film at Bourke was My Pal Trigger from 1946.
    Lawrence
  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,254 admin
    edited December 2015
    HONDO said:
    Watching every penny when the toll television took on the film industry happened and this combined with a lack of good poster artists were in my mind a major contributing factor in the decline of Australian poster art starting in the 1950s. Duotone posters printed for major distributors for first release, re-release or second printings and a fair amount of posters printed for the smaller independents such as Blake, Regent ( RFD ), IFD & Ray Films, regardless of them being first release or re-release they weren't considered to be of much value so el cheapo versions were ordered from mainly unknown printers who were ashamed I imagine to have their names printed on the posters.

    Agree or not these are my thoughts.
    I really don't think it was penny pinching at all, there is certainly no evidence to suggest that, why would studios try to save money on something that was designed to get the punters through the door doesn't makes sense besides there was an economic boom by the 1950s.

    I agree there was probably a very real lack of good artists post war (due to the war), of course there was simply a lack of any sort of labour back then, in fact so severe was the manpower shortage Australia implemented its successful migration policy. I can also imagine good quality artists being snapped up by the ad agencies and similar (newsprint etc) - they would have paid far more money than a printer I am sure.

    I would also imagine that some of the well established studios like Richardson had a lot of 'older' artist who possibly never went to war, stayed with the company and were too set in their ways to do anything else.

    So yes perhaps some of the art was reduced to simply amateurs copying from whatever foreign material they could get their hands on, but I just don't believe it was from any economic reasoning


    David
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Some of the independent distributors virtually started as one man operations so their budgets wouldn't have been huge. The bookings for a lot of the independent distributors would have been limited due to the type of product they had to distribute. I lived in Newcastle ( for those who don't know the second largest city in N.S.W. ) a good part of my life and a large percentage of the product from IFD, Regent And Blake films were never released in Newcastle city or suburbs so what are the chances their product was released in smaller venues which catered more for families. I am sure whoever the printers were that designed the duotone daybills and didn't print their details ( probably out of shame ) were a lot cheaper to use than the major printers. At least David agrees on the lack of quality artists and I believe this is the number one reason for the poor quality first release colour posters that started to appear in the late 1950s which was the period Aub.Moseley a great poster artist left Robert Burton after a short stint.. When I spoke to Aub. on the telephone this year he told me that when Robert Burton decided to print movie posters around 1957 they approached him and said they would find it hard to design posters without his participation so it sounds to me that in the late 1950s there was a shortage of quality poster artists around at that time and I imagine many of the artists that designed the marvellous posters from the 1920s. 1930s, 1940s into the 1950s had retired over a periodof time leaving a void to be filled.
    Lawrence
  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,254 admin
    edited December 2015
    Newcastle maybe the second largest city in NSW but it is still only about 5% of the population of Sydney so from an independent distributors point of view that would come down to the economics of distribution which would be for many independents the demographics of the area...another reason Pancho can't find his daybills.


    David
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