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Hondo's Daybill Q&A [Re-Titled]

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  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector

    One More title.

    The Return Of The Vampire ( 1943 ) - A Horror Film Suitable Only For Adults.


    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector

    We have now established eight titles, with each one of them showing one of the three ''Horror'' named classifications on the posters. Although Night Monster was released in the U.S.A. in 1942 it in only gained an Australian release in 1944. Three U.S. 1943 releases The Return Of The Vampire, Son OF Dracula and  The Mad Ghoul were released in Australia in 1944. It appears the special ''Horror'' classifications were used on Australian posters in part of 1944 and all of 1945 and so far one only located for 1946 ( The Sinister Shadow ), the year the rating used for horror films appeared to have been changed to only Suitable Only For Adults. Frankenstein Meets The Wolf Man ( 1943 ) and Revenge Of The Zombies ( 1943 ) were released in Australia in 1944 and carried the Suitable Only For Adults rating, it appears just prior to the ''Horror'' classification being implemented. There are a few other titles that I believe carry one of the three ''Horror'' classifications around somewhere that hopefully will surface one day. A horror film reference appears on newspaper adverting on a few titles, so therefore most likely will be on the missing Australian titles as well.

    This is a list of the titles so far found that carry one of the three ''Horror'' classifications.

    Body Snatcher, The

    House Of Frankenstein, The

    Mad Ghoul, The

    Night Monster

    One Body Too Many

    Return Of The Vampire, The

    Sinister Shadow, The ( aka House Of Horrors )

    Son Of Dracula


    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    I will not be responding to any questions, if any, from now on, for an indefinite period of time.
    Lawrence
  • SvenSven Member Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Hi Lawrence Easy rider daybill by robert Burton is printed with a yellow background and blue background. Are they both considered first release? 
  • CSM_2_Point_0CSM_2_Point_0 Member, Super Sleuth Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Good question Sven - I have wondered what the 'official' answer is too...
    -Chris

    There's a street of lights

    A long dark night
    Restaurant scenes
    And dark machines...

  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    edited May 2017



    Sven said:



    Hi Lawrence Easy rider daybill by robert Burton is printed with a yellow background and blue background. Are they both considered first release? 












    Good question Sven - I have wondered what the 'official' answer is too...



    Before I give a detailed reply I need to clarify something. The only blue background Easy Rider daybills I have seen were all printed by M.A,P.S. and not Robert Burton. An image of a Robert Burton image of the blue background daybill would be appreciated.   




    Lawrence
  • SvenSven Member Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    I was  mistaken the the only  blue  background i can find is the maps litho

    So rephrase  the question. 

    Which easy rider daybill is considered the first release daybill; the yellow background by robert burton or blue background by maps litho?

    Thanks hondo
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector

    Sven said:

    I was  mistaken the the only  blue  background i can find is the maps litho

    So rephrase  the question. 

    Which easy rider daybill is considered the first release daybill; the yellow background by robert burton or blue background by maps litho?

    Thanks hondo


    Both daybills I believe are from the first release. This call is based on both daybills having the Australian classification ''Suitable Only For Adults'' printed on them. In November 1971 the " Suitable Only For Adults'' rating was changed to the M rating, Easy Rider was released in Sydney Australia 28 March, 1970. This therefore would mean the daybills would have had to have been printed prior to the Australian release March, 1970, but no later than November, 1971, thus ruling out one being a re-release. Unknown then if both were printed for the Australian 1970 release or one printed for the release and the other an early second printing that would have followed sometime between March, 1970 and November, 1971.

    There is also a similar white Australian daybill exactly the same design with only the colour and the wording ''A man went looking for America. And couldn't find it  anywhere'' changed to ''easy rider A youth odyssey of today'' replacing it. This version printed by M.A.P.S. also. The only two images I have been able to locate for the white version have no Australian censorship ratings originally printed on them and have New Zealand censorship stamps on them. I would love to see an image of the white version showing the Australian censorship printed on the poster. Does anyone have this image to share here? I would think this version was also printed prior to November, 1971.

    The different versions of the Australian one sheets is also of interest.

    For anyone that may have missed my earlier thread ''Easy Rider posters'' a visit may be of interest to you.


    Lawrence
  • SvenSven Member Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Thanks Lawrence for the response appreciate it.

    Another question!  Others chime in too

    Are their other known examples  where robert burton and maps printed exactly the same design and censorship? And any evidence  that one was a second printing? Maybe a pattern here?

    I think jaws was printed by both maps and Robert burton with same design and censorship ?  
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Many film titles, almost all of them happened in the 1970's, had the same design and same censorship ratings applied on the posters. The colour background may not have been the same in some, but they were the same design and there are numerous examples and almost all were printed for C.I.C. with M.A.P.S. and Robert Burton being one combination and M.A.P.S. and blank with no distributor credited being the other. There was possibility other printer combination also. The printers involved in the printing of the one sheets of dual poster daybill versions may possibly be a clue as to which daybill came first. I will endeavour to look into this thought when time permits.
    Lawrence
  • SvenSven Member Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    edited May 2017
  • CSM_2_Point_0CSM_2_Point_0 Member, Super Sleuth Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Did we not have a lengthy thread dedicated to Aussie censorship ratings?  Anyways, I cannot locate it so I am posting this here.  Please move if necessary.

    This is from the Shanghai Gesture daybill.  Don't believe I have ever seen the same rating style printed on another daybill:


    -Chris

    There's a street of lights

    A long dark night
    Restaurant scenes
    And dark machines...

  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    I have never seen this classification on any Australian posters. I am thinking possibly added on for the 1940's New Zealand release. Checking into it a little further and will get back here if I find out anything else.
    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Did we not have a lengthy thread dedicated to Aussie censorship ratings?  Anyways, I cannot locate it so I am posting this here.  Please move if necessary.

    This is from the Shanghai Gesture daybill.  Don't believe I have ever seen the same rating style printed on another daybill:


    HONDO said:
    I have never seen this classification on any Australian posters. I am thinking possibly added on for the 1940's New Zealand release. Checking into it a little further and will get back here if I find out anything else.


    My New Zealand contact has just informed me of the following.                 

    'The film Shanghai Gesture was classified 'A' with excisions on 20.5.1942.This New Zealand classification means 'approved for general exhibition-recommended as more suitable for adults'. This is very similar to the wording on the daybill image you attached, and so it seems likely this may have been the New Zealand daybill.

    Lawrence
  • CSM_2_Point_0CSM_2_Point_0 Member, Super Sleuth Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    HONDO said:
    Did we not have a lengthy thread dedicated to Aussie censorship ratings?  Anyways, I cannot locate it so I am posting this here.  Please move if necessary.

    This is from the Shanghai Gesture daybill.  Don't believe I have ever seen the same rating style printed on another daybill:


    HONDO said:
    I have never seen this classification on any Australian posters. I am thinking possibly added on for the 1940's New Zealand release. Checking into it a little further and will get back here if I find out anything else.


    My New Zealand contact has just informed me of the following.                 

    'The film Shanghai Gesture was classified 'A' with excisions on 20.5.1942.This New Zealand classification means 'approved for general exhibition-recommended as more suitable for adults'. This is very similar to the wording on the daybill image you attached, and so it seems likely this may have been the New Zealand daybill.

    Thanks again Lawrence - more great info!
    -Chris

    There's a street of lights

    A long dark night
    Restaurant scenes
    And dark machines...

  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector

    I thought I would mention for the benefit of anyone new to the forum that if anyone has any questions regarding Australian daybill posters, or any other Australian film posters sizes, that this is place to direct your questions to and I will endeavour to answer them for you.

    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Sven said:
    I do have another question then...are there many W.E. Smith daybills from the 1950s that had the almost same designs in artwork copied for certain MGM titles in the early 1960s by another printer for re-releases? Why was this?
    HONDO said:


    Sven said:
    I do have another question then...are there many W.E. Smith daybills from the 1950s that had the almost same designs in artwork copied for certain MGM titles in the early 1960s by another printer for re-releases? Why was this?


    I am glad you asked this question Sven.

    I don't know why this happened but I can give you a list of the titles that fall into this category.

    DEEP IN MY HEART

    HIGH SOCIETY

    I'LL CRY TOMORROW

    RHAPSODY

    SEVEN BRIDES FOR SEVEN BROTHERS

    SHOWBOAT

    The first five listed were printed by Advertising And Commercial ( A. & C. ) and most likely re-released sometime between 1960 & 1962.

    Showboat was printed by Chromo Print and  most likely re-released 1959 or even possibly early 1960.

    If you have any of the six titles in your collection  and believe you have an original if it W.E.Smith printed breath easy now but if it is a A. & C. or Chromo Print it is definitely a re-release.

    HONDO said:
    Just realised there is also  a THE STUDENT PRINCE daybill printed by A.& C. that would have been re-released sometime between 1960 & 1962 .I have never been able to find an image from the original release but I firmly believe it would have most likely have been printed by  W.E.Smith as well and I  think the design was most likely the same
    HONDO said:

    Mark said:


    If not discussed already, here are a couple more anomalies for Hondo to research.

    1. Annie got your gun. Near identical daybills by W.E. Smith & Simmons Ltd.


     
    I have always wondered about the Simmons daybill of Annie Get Your Gun being an original. Now that I have been informed about a W.E.Smith daybill as well and there happened to be one on eMovieposter.com that I have checked out. No definite proof but I firmly believe the following.The W.E.Smith  version is the original daybill as they were the preferred printer at that time. Simmons printed a good number of MGM daybills in 1956 which co-insides with a 1956 re-release around Australia of Annie Get Your Gun. The Simmons version is more available to obtain than to the rare W.E.Smith version and usually re-release posters are more easily available.

    Lawrence
  • SvenSven Member Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    edited April 2
    The re-posted information of mine I have partly edited and combined so it is now all together to answer Sven's original question.


    Lawrence
  • SvenSven Member Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    HONDO said:

    Thanks to Sven and Ves for their information which was much appreciated. To clarify what I am after, it is that I only need titles of horror films released in Australia in the 1940's, with any of the following three censorship ratings appearing on them.

    The ratings are as follows-

    A Horror Picture For Adults Only

    A Horror Film Suitable For Adults Only

    Horror Film Suitable Only For Adults

    Possibly there were other variations printed as well containing the word Horror, and if so I would love to know about them as well if they happen to exist.

    There were certainly more Australian posters printed with the word Horror appearing on them. I have images of others and some Australian newspaper advertisements, carrying a Horror rating on films that I haven't been able to find poster images of.

    Hi Lawrence , another slight variation 


    This is a Horror Film  Suitable Only For Adults


  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    HONDO said:

    We have now established eight titles, with each one of them showing one of the three ''Horror'' named classifications on the posters. Although Night Monster was released in the U.S.A. in 1942 it in only gained an Australian release in 1944. Three U.S. 1943 releases The Return Of The Vampire, Son OF Dracula and  The Mad Ghoul were released in Australia in 1944. It appears the special ''Horror'' classifications were used on Australian posters in part of 1944 and all of 1945 and so far one only located for 1946 ( The Sinister Shadow ), the year the rating used for horror films appeared to have been changed to only Suitable Only For Adults. Frankenstein Meets The Wolf Man ( 1943 ) and Revenge Of The Zombies ( 1943 ) were released in Australia in 1944 and carried the Suitable Only For Adults rating, it appears just prior to the ''Horror'' classification being implemented. There are a few other titles that I believe carry one of the three ''Horror'' classifications around somewhere that hopefully will surface one day. A horror film reference appears on newspaper adverting on a few titles, so therefore most likely will be on the missing Australian titles as well.

    This is a list of the titles so far found that carry one of the three ''Horror'' classifications.

    Body Snatcher, The

    Henry Aldrich Haunts a House ( added 3 / 11 / 2018 ) ( Thanks to Sven for posting a 3 sheet image )

    House Of Frankenstein, The

    Mad Ghoul, The

    Night Monster

    One Body Too Many

    Return Of The Vampire, The

    Sinister Shadow, The ( aka House Of Horrors )

    Son Of Dracula



    Henry Aldrich Haunts a House ( 1943 ) I have now added to the above Australian Horror censorship classification ratings list. The film was released in Australia in early 1944. This now brings the total of these Horror classified films to nine. What makes the classification interesting is that  most U.S.A. sources , including IMDB and Wikipedia refer to the film as being a comedy only and TCM even goes as far as labeling it a teenage comedy. There were eleven Aldich Family / Henry Aldrich "B' grade films made during 1939 / 1944.This comedy series was Paramount's answer to MGM's Andy Hardy series. Our Australian censors at times were all over the place with their decisions.

    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector

    Although I have been unable to locate any other Australian daybill, one sheet or 3 sheet poster images having any form of ''Horror / adults'' censorship ratings printed on them, I have still  managed to find information on other film titles that should have had this information printed on their Australian posters. I will suppy a list shortly.

    There were also other Australian daybill posters carrying only ''Suitable only for adults'' ratings on them,  but were advertised in other media as being '' Horror / suitable on adults'' that I will also list. 


    Lawrence
  • darolodarolo Member Posts: 26 ✭ Mexican Lobby Carder
    Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman should be added to the list as it does mention it's a horror film.
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    darolo said:
    Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman should be added to the list as it does mention it's a horror film.

    HONDO said:

    Although I have been unable to locate any other Australian daybill, one sheet or 3 sheet poster images having any form of ''Horror / adults'' censorship ratings printed on them, I have still  managed to find information on other film titles that should have had this information printed on their Australian posters. I will suppy a list shortly.

    There were also other Australian daybill posters carrying only ''Suitable only for adults'' ratings on them,  but were advertised in other media as being '' Horror / suitable on adults'' that I will also list. 


    I hadn't noticed the Frankenstein Meets The Wolf Man had the smaller printed ''This Is A Horror Film And Is....'' preceeding the larger ''Suitable Only For Adults'' classification in a circle before. I will certainly add it to the list shortly. This title was advertised in Australian newspaper advertisements as being a horror film.
    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    HONDO said:
    darolo said:
    Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman should be added to the list as it does mention it's a horror film.

    HONDO said:

    Although I have been unable to locate any other Australian daybill, one sheet or 3 sheet poster images having any form of ''Horror / adults'' censorship ratings printed on them, I have still  managed to find information on other film titles that should have had this information printed on their Australian posters. I will suppy a list shortly.

    There were also other Australian daybill posters carrying only ''Suitable only for adults'' ratings on them,  but were advertised in other media as being '' Horror / suitable on adults'' that I will also list. 


    I hadn't noticed the Frankenstein Meets The Wolf Man had the smaller printed ''This Is A Horror Film And Is....'' preceeding the larger ''Suitable Only For Adults'' classification in a circle before. I will certainly add it to the list shortly. This title was advertised in Australian newspaper advertisements as being a horror film.

    A list of all the films that I have located where no Australian film posters have been located for, that carried the ''Horror Film - Suitable Only For Adults'' censorship rating in Australian newspaper advertising are as follows -

    Captive Wild Woman
    Cry of the Werewolf
    Dead Men Walk ( released in the U.S.A. by poverty row studio PRC and BEF most likely the Australian distributor )
    Frozen Ghost, The
    Mummy's Curse, The
                                                                                                                                                                                             If and when Australian posters surface for any the above five posters they could have have a '' Horror Film -  Suitable Only For Adults'' rating appearing on them, or at least ''Suitable Only For Adults". 

    And following up on the '' There were also other Australian daybill posters carrying only ''Suitable Only for Adults'' ratings on them, but were advertised in other media as being ''Horror / suitable only for adults"' that I will also list'' comment that had I earlier posted, I have located the following titles that fall into this category.

    Jungle Woman 
    Revenge Of The Zombies

    Of interest I will mention that a factual, approximately running 10 minute film that contained footage from Nazi concentration camp atrocities was classified by the Australian film censor in 1945, The film was classified by the Australian film censor as being a ''Horror Film - Suitable only For Adults''. Due to the brevity of the running time, most likely film posters wouldn't have been printed, but you cannot completely rule it out though.

    Lawrence
  • MarkMark Member Posts: 620 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    Have you got Walking Dead, Lawrence?
    Next you will have to compile a list with "SOFA, except the highly nervous"!
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Mark said:
    Have you got Walking Dead, Lawrence?
    Next you will have to compile a list with "SOFA, except the highly nervous"!
    The Walking Dead was a 1936 release so way out of the period I am covering here. As mentioned earlier the time frame for the ''Horror Film Suitable Only For Adults'' classification variations appears to have been only applied during part of 1944. all of 1945 and one 1946 example. For whatever reason this application was short lived. Your ''SOFA, expect the highly nervous'' list suggestion sounds interesting. Are there others or was this just an inspiration from someone at Warner Brothers to advertise in this manner for this film? I'm wondering  in what form the Suitable Only for  Adults classification appeared on the original daybill, one and three sheets?
    Lawrence
  • MarkMark Member Posts: 620 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    edited November 8
    I know King Kong had a similar warning. Will see if I can find it & post a pic.
    Above is for Drac's Daughter on left.


    Post edited by Mark on
  • CSM_2_Point_0CSM_2_Point_0 Member, Super Sleuth Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Sven said:
    HONDO said:

    Thanks to Sven and Ves for their information which was much appreciated. To clarify what I am after, it is that I only need titles of horror films released in Australia in the 1940's, with any of the following three censorship ratings appearing on them.

    The ratings are as follows-

    A Horror Picture For Adults Only

    A Horror Film Suitable For Adults Only

    Horror Film Suitable Only For Adults

    Possibly there were other variations printed as well containing the word Horror, and if so I would love to know about them as well if they happen to exist.

    There were certainly more Australian posters printed with the word Horror appearing on them. I have images of others and some Australian newspaper advertisements, carrying a Horror rating on films that I haven't been able to find poster images of.

    Hi Lawrence , another slight variation 


    This is a Horror Film  Suitable Only For Adults


    Looks to be a three sheet?
    -Chris

    There's a street of lights

    A long dark night
    Restaurant scenes
    And dark machines...

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