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Ask Your Linenbacking & Restoration Questions

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  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,120 admin
    Esp the last part....let’s see some pictures.... ;)
  • VulgarVulgar Member Posts: 15 ✭ Mexican Lobby Carder
    edited November 1

    Hello all. I'm new here and very intrigued by this process and would very much like to get into it. I recently bought this spanish theatrical release poster for The Evil Dead. I'm wanting to make it my first one so I want to make sure I know absolutely everything I need to know before starting. I've been reading a little on here and across the web. This forum is the most info I was able to find on the subject. I want to bleach, deacid, and linenback this piece and would greatly appreciate any more info as far as what I will need and mainly how to get it. Thanks!









  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,120 admin
    Welcome Vulgar! Linenbacking certainly is challenging, but fun!

    I’d suggest reading all the threads in Charlie’s Amateur Linenbacking 101 first (http://vintagemoviepostersforum.com/categories/-how-it-s-made-)   then reading through the Eisenhower Linenbacking Experience.

    Lotsa good procedural steps re: deacidification, bleaching, stretching of canvas, laying down of Masa paper, mixing of wheat paste and other info to be found. Afterwards asking particular questions are much easier to field. 

    Cheers! 
  • MattMatt Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 5,158 admin
    Welcome Vulgar! 
    Where to get the materials will depend on where you live?
  • VulgarVulgar Member Posts: 15 ✭ Mexican Lobby Carder
    Thanks guys! I live on the east coast of the US. I'm starting to piece it all together, I'll come back with more specific questions as they arise. One I have now is what sort of protective gear should I be wearing when dealing with this stuff? Gloves, apron, googles? Or is it not that serious. Total noob, know no chemistry.
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,346 admin
    edited November 2
    I’ve never worn any protective stuff.  The only time I’ve ever felt like I should was when I removed a poster from foam core with half a canister of bestine... 

    If you are keeping the water fresh and running it as you go, there is nothing more you need than an apron...
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
  • PanchoPancho Member Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    Hi guys,

    I've had an eye on this one for a while and finally decided to pull the trigger today. The seller says that there has been some rice paper added on the back for stability. Ideally, I'm thinking of having this poster linenbacked, so I was curious as to whether removing the rice paper will be a huge task? 

    Thanks!



  • SvenSven Member Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Great daybill..It depends what was used to adhere the rice paper i guess...wheat paste hopefully, easily removed during the wash.. Maybe ask the seller but i feel it will be ok (gut feel) 
    Could leave as is?
  • collectaholliccollectahollic Member Posts: 844 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    Great looking daybill. Nice score. 
    Wil
  • PanchoPancho Member Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    50s daybills are a bit outside my wheelhouse, but if the art is right...

    The seller is simply a dealer; he got the poster 'as is', so no clues there.
  • VulgarVulgar Member Posts: 15 ✭ Mexican Lobby Carder
    So I'm going to be setting up my studio tomorrow and I want make a complete list of everything I will need. Tools, chemicals, materials (paper, paperfill, specific colored pencils, other restoration materials). I've been reading Eisenhower Experience and I know these things came up but I've been reading so much that I can't remember where exactly in the thread it was. If anyone could help me out with a complete list that would be amazing. I just don't want to overlook anything while I'm making it out myself and want to make sure to get the best things possible. Thanks guys!
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,120 admin

    When I started out, I was really concerned with the restoration aspect, still am. But that is really after you've become proficient at washing and laying down a poster properly. A poster can only be restored correctly when it's been laid down on the masa and canvas well.

    So, what are your washing steps, and what chemicals are you going to use in the process of the wash prior to laying the poster down. You'll need a chem list for washing, and the necessary steps to make the wheat starch adhesive as well. Post your list and we can help clarify what looks good, as well as your steps.

    Here is a link to find great information on the treatment of paper.

    http://www.conservation-wiki.com/wiki/Book_&_Paper

    go to the section on "Conservation Treatment" I printed out about 20 chapters and read quite a bit before getting a poster wet.

  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,346 admin
    I hate to point you to the “other” forum but once you get done with Mark’s threads you can check out this thread I started long ago documenting my journey:

    http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,4053.msg220965.html#msg220965


    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,346 admin
    Hard to believe that was over six years ago!
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
  • VulgarVulgar Member Posts: 15 ✭ Mexican Lobby Carder
    edited November 4
    Well so far my understanding is that things such as tape and markings are to be addressed with bestine before a soapy wipe down (not sure on what soap I'm supposed to use yet, I saw a name but can't recall) then it goes to the deacidification bath of a 4:1 ratio of de-ionized water and calcium hydroxide with a ph of 10 to 12 for 20 to 30 mins while being in layers of mylar and masa ( I do need clarification on if it's mylar, masa, poster, masa, mylar for the layers), then a rinse (for this part does it have to be deionized as well?) and then to the bleaching and for this part I was looking into Magnesium Bicarbonate. I'm not clear on times for bleaching either. Then another rinse, deacidification, and rinse. Then on the canvas it goes. I appreciate the help Eisenhower, I've been enjoying reading your thread and looking at your progress. Very impressive. I 100% plan to push myself there. I'm building a table and making the space to make this happen in the next few days. I'm colorblind as hell so I'm having to bring in my lifelong friend on board for the project. She's an amazing tattooist/artist so I have no doubt she could tackle the restoration portion like a pro. 
  • VulgarVulgar Member Posts: 15 ✭ Mexican Lobby Carder
    Thanks Charlie! I will definitely check that out. I can't say how much I appreciate you guys making these threads, there's hardly any info on this stuff online. Ever since I saw my first PFix youtube video I knew this was something I wanted to learn how to do. Speaking of, what do you guys think of his methods?
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,346 admin
    Personally Pfix damages/destroys to much of the original poster during his process.  He also continually breaks one of my pillars of backing - he’ll back poster without washing or deacidifying simply because his client don’t pay him to do it.  He also uses irreversible mediums for his image restoration which is sometimes needed but he over-restores images IMO.  Basically, instead of spending time trying to conserve the posters (paper) in his videos, he is quick to separate folds and use paint to cover his clumsiness...

    I would never send him anything no matter the price...

    He also uses a roller right on the poster which is dangerous and not a conservative method at all...


    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
  • VulgarVulgar Member Posts: 15 ✭ Mexican Lobby Carder
    I thought he was too aggressive for sure and wondered why he was using a brayer. The markers too. I don't think I would take colored markers to a piece.
  • VulgarVulgar Member Posts: 15 ✭ Mexican Lobby Carder
    So is what I laid out a basic understanding? I'm sure I'm missing stuff. 
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,346 admin
    edited November 4
    Vulgar said:
    So is what I laid out a basic understanding? I'm sure I'm missing stuff. 
    You’ll have to go you own way (Fleetwood MAC)...

    I started with a Chloramine T and settle on Calcium Hypo for bleach.  You may find you love magnesium or you hate it. 

    I think Calcium Hydrox is a gentle deacid you can’t really go wrong with.  The rest is really diving in.

    And it is super funny you are colorblind because I am too and we had a really good laugh thinking about how I was going to get all this resto done.  Like you - in my case the wife had to help me along in color matching.

    Just dive in.  Do 3-5 throw aways and you’ll either get comfortable or realize you need more input.  Feel free to document your journey here on the forum in a new thread for sure!
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,120 admin
    Charlie said:
    I hate to point you to the “other” forum but once you get done with Mark’s threads you can check out this thread I started long ago documenting my journey:

    http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,4053.msg220965.html#msg220965


    And reading Charlie's threads here too, as the deacidification thread is one of the most helpful. For apf, you'll need to register/be approved as a member to get access to their restoration thread. They "hide" it from non-members, but it does contain the whole narrative for linenbacking, which is what i read so many times to help clarify my practices in the beginning. 
  • VulgarVulgar Member Posts: 15 ✭ Mexican Lobby Carder
    Throwaways.. so should it be a given that I'm gonna mess up my first handful of attempts?
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,120 admin
    Charlie said:
    Hard to believe that was over six years ago!
    Yeah! Seems like forever I stumbled upon that thread, and your youtube videos. Good times....
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,120 admin
    @Vulgar sounds like you've got some of the pieces of the wash process. Orvus is the organic soap that you can spray on the poster (after you've gotten it wet of course) to remove topical dirt. Then it heads to the Deacid bath-Cal Hydroxid is correct (although i'm sure other's use other chems). The poster is supported in between two pieces of mylar as you squeege out/rinse the chems out of the poster. 

    I've not used Magnesium Carbonate for bleaching. Maybe i've read it before, just don't remember. But yes, the poster will need to be rinsed after a bleaching (how long depends on deep the stains/toning/foxing are on the poster, and how much you want to eradicate them) then back to the deacid bath, then rinsed then on to the masa paper to be glued. What glue are you going to use? 
  • VulgarVulgar Member Posts: 15 ✭ Mexican Lobby Carder
    That would be wheat flour or vegetable starch and deionized water, yes?
  • VulgarVulgar Member Posts: 15 ✭ Mexican Lobby Carder
    Also do you guys perform all wet processes in the same tray or multiple trays for each?
  • VulgarVulgar Member Posts: 15 ✭ Mexican Lobby Carder
    Here is my list so far:

    Orvus Soap
    Calcium Hydroxide
    Calcium hypochlorite
    Masa
    Mylar
    Cotton canvas
    2x4s
    Staplegun
    Knife
    Tarp
    Clamps
    Sawhorses
    Trays (maybe)
    Buckets

    Was thinking of making my own trays with sawhorses and tarp.
  • VulgarVulgar Member Posts: 15 ✭ Mexican Lobby Carder
    Oh what are those corner brackets on your frames called Eisenhower? I spent like 20 mins last night trying to find those and I couldn't.
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,346 admin
    Lowes/Home Depot 
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
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