Dumbo Original Daybill At Last

HONDO

Courtesy of John the first daybill image I have ever seen of the Dumbo ( 1941 ) first Australian release in 1942, along with some Australian newspaper advertising from 1942. The daybill is definitely from the 1942 release due to the RKO 4 star logo, which was replaced in 1941 / 42 by the plain RKO logo, minus any stars .

The Australian one sheet also most likely from the first release. The 4 Stars were used on Australian one sheets up to 1948, when finally they were replaced also by plain RKO logos also. There is a possibility though this one sheet may have been printed for a pre-1949 Australian re-release. The same design daybill just above, minus the 4 stars, has been credited as being from the first release on at least one occasion, which it isn't of course. I don't know for sure but I would think possibly late 1940's re-release.

David

*sigh*

theartofmovieposters

yeah...I dont generally do animation, but this is one I would love to have.  Always loved the story and was one of the first books I owned as a little girl.  Loverly!

David

The "re-release" is trimmed on the right?

HONDO

David said:

The "re-release" is trimmed on the right?

Yes it appears so. What I find interesting here is that this Simmons daybill poster wasn't printed full bleed, without borders. All Simmons RKO posters were printed without borders as far as I know until the mid 1950's. There were a few minor title RKO daybill posters printed by F. Cunninghame in the late 1940's with borders such as Make Mine Laughs ( 1949 ), but I am not aware of any from Simmons.

Eisenhower

 

Wonderful looking Daybill! Thx for posting Lawrence & John as well!

David

HONDO said:

David said:

The "re-release" is trimmed on the right?

Yes it appears so. What I find interesting here is that this Simmons daybill poster wasn't printed full bleed, without borders. All Simmons RKO posters were printed without borders as far as I know until the mid 1950's. There were a few minor title RKO daybill posters printed by F. Cunninghame in the late 1940's with borders such as Make Mine Laughs ( 1949 ), but I am not aware of any from Simmons.

I thought it interesting without the full bleed too. I didn't connect it would be a printer preference...one of those we'll never know I suspect.

David

What about this theory:

The 're-release' although an original print I wonder if it is a copy of the original poster rather than off the original plates which might explain the border?

HONDO

David said:

What about this theory:

The 're-release' although an original print I wonder if it is a copy of the original poster rather than off the original plates which might explain the border?I

I was waiting to hear what someone else thought before I commented, but seeing this hasn't happened, I will throw in my two cents worth. It could be possible this is an expert copy of the original, but even if this happens to be correct, why produce borders on the poster, when this wasn't Simmons policy to do so with RKO daybills that they produced. The early Simmons re-release daybill posters of Pinocchio and Blood On The Moon are two examples of these posters being printed without borders. Was the printing of the re-release daybill poster of Dumbo with the borders a printer's error or was there another explanation? We probably will never find the answer.

David

HONDO said:

David said:

What about this theory:

The 're-release' although an original print I wonder if it is a copy of the original poster rather than off the original plates which might explain the border?I

 It could be possible this is an expert copy of the original, but even if this happens to be correct, why produce borders on the poster, 

What's the width of the two posters?

HONDO

David said:

HONDO said:

David said:

What about this theory:

The 're-release' although an original print I wonder if it is a copy of the original poster rather than off the original plates which might explain the border?I

 It could be possible this is an expert copy of the original, but even if this happens to be correct, why produce borders on the poster, 

What's the width of the two posters?

I'll check and see what I can find.

David

HONDO said:

David said:

HONDO said:

David said:

What about this theory:

The 're-release' although an original print I wonder if it is a copy of the original poster rather than off the original plates which might explain the border?I

 It could be possible this is an expert copy of the original, but even if this happens to be correct, why produce borders on the poster, 

What's the width of the two posters?

I'll check and see what I can find.

Ok.

My thinking is, if the posters are different width it is likely the images are the same width, this might explain the border (because the standard poster size had changed changed by the re-release date). This would also confirm that the re-release is a copy off the original daybill and not a new plate, because as you say it would then likely be a full bleed. I reckon

HONDO

David said:

HONDO said:

David said:

HONDO said:

David said:

What about this theory:

The 're-release' although an original print I wonder if it is a copy of the original poster rather than off the original plates which might explain the border?I

 It could be possible this is an expert copy of the original, but even if this happens to be correct, why produce borders on the poster, 

What's the width of the two posters?

I'll check and see what I can find.

Ok.

My thinking is, if the posters are different width it is likely the images are the same width, this might explain the border (because the standard poster size had changed changed by the re-release date). This would also confirm that the re-release is a copy off the original daybill and not a new plate, because as you say it would then likely be a full bleed. I reckon

I am uncertain as to your thinking and the case you are making. John's 1942 image of Dumbo is 13'' in width. When you said the poster size had changed since the original release, are you thinking the original Dumbo was the  war time size 10'' x 30'' by any chance? If this isn't the case I would appreciate some more information as I am not quite on board with what you have stated about the original poster size. 

HONDO

The Dumbo re-release poster was listed as 34.5 cm, which I have calculated to be 13.582568 inches. You would then have to add on a very small amount allowing for the missing trimmed right hand border.

David

HONDO said:

David said:

HONDO said:

David said:

HONDO said:

David said:

What about this theory:

The 're-release' although an original print I wonder if it is a copy of the original poster rather than off the original plates which might explain the border?I

 It could be possible this is an expert copy of the original, but even if this happens to be correct, why produce borders on the poster, 

What's the width of the two posters?

I'll check and see what I can find.

Ok.

My thinking is, if the posters are different width it is likely the images are the same width, this might explain the border (because the standard poster size had changed changed by the re-release date). This would also confirm that the re-release is a copy off the original daybill and not a new plate, because as you say it would then likely be a full bleed. I reckon

I am uncertain as to your thinking and the case you are making. John's 1942 image of Dumbo is 13'' in width. When you said the poster size had changed since the original release, are you thinking the original Dumbo was the  war time size 10'' x 30'' by any chance? If this isn't the case I would appreciate some more information as I am not quite on board with what you have stated about the original poster size. 

Just shooting at the air...taking wild stabs to try an understand why an RKO re-release poster that is identical to the original is printed with a border.

I got nothing

theartofmovieposters

What if the RR wasn't trimmed properly before it left the printer?

David

theartofmovieposters said:

What if the RR wasn't trimmed properly before it left the printer?

No one like a smart ass...  

There is an absolute logic in that too, those + on the side may be registration marks for trimming. We have all see plenty of RKOs that are trimmed to the "bleed". 

HONDO

I enjoy all this imput. I would love to see another copy of the re-release daybill of Dumbo just to see what it looks like. Surely there is one ready to surface out there somewhere.

theartofmovieposters

Sorry for the crap photo...only one on file apparently.

from what I can see, it has borders...slim ones on either side but one up top.

I will pull it out tomorrow when I am less tired and less likely to rip things.

Same one on Bruce's site:

No side borders.

See, not trimmed properly

theartofmovieposters

David said:

There is an absolute logic in that too, those + on the side may be registration marks for trimming. We have all see plenty of RKOs that are trimmed to the "bleed". 

Yes this.

I don't recall seeing the registration marks in that position before...in the corners yes, in the middle no...

Anyone else?

jayn_j

I can't speak for waybills, but you see this a lot on 30x40s here.  The image is used from the 27x41 1 sheet, and wide borders are added to fit the 30" width.

HONDO

I had a look at another image I have of The Window daybill, and unfortunately I cannot seem to download it onto this thread. On saying that the good news is that the poster has only a small border at the top, no border on the right hand side, but on the left hand side on the wider white border, and across from just under where the RKO Presents box appears on the poster, is a small +, the same as the two on the Dumbo daybill image. It certainly points to Dumbo and The Window both not being trimmed correctly on the side of the actual poster image, which would have enabled them to have been  displayed as full bleed. Great team work to put this one to bed. One thing that stands out though is between the two images of The Window displayed above and the one I have the trimming process at Simmons appears to have been all over the place. It will be interesting to see the copy Ves has has closer up but I will also ask Ves if I can email my image to her and see if she is able to attach it here on this thread. 

David

David said:

This is a close up of  a poster with the same registration mark, and as you can see it is cut there.

It is an RKO. So I think Ves theory is starting to sound more and more accurate

theartofmovieposters

Ta da...Lawrence's image of the window.  I will pull mine out a bit later.

theartofmovieposters

   David said:

It is an RKO. So I think Ves theory is starting to sound more and more accurate

HONDO

David said:

David said:

In fact on mine down the bottom left you can just make out the print mark for the cut line, on HA's one you cannot, mine has been trimmed marginally wider on the left and narrower on the right - but as I said both are the same size.

This is a close up of  a poster with the same registration mark, and as you can see it is cut there.

It is an RKO. So I think Ves theory is starting to sound more and more accurate

What is the name of the film?

HONDO

theartofmovieposters said:

Ta da...Lawrence's image of the window.  I will pull mine out a bit later.

Thanks Ves for the image.

David

HONDO said:

David said:

This is a close up of  a poster with the same registration mark, and as you can see it is cut there.

It is an RKO. So I think Ves theory is starting to sound more and more accurate

What is the name of the film?

It's A Wonderful Life

HONDO

There is another image on Google of the It's A Wonderful Life daybill trimmed a little tighter. It has the vertical line removed and only shows the horizontal line on the image. Interesting.

HONDO

Almost forgot. A big thank you to Ves for posting The Window daybill image for me.

theartofmovieposters

My copy of the window...definite borders on either side though very slim