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FS: Angels with Dirty Face US OS (Early RR)

CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,084 admin
Recently I went in on a joint buy with some buddies and we've managed to move everything through EMP except one poster (and a few lobbies that haven't popped up on EMP yet).  We really don't know what it would fetch at auction and before we take that risk, I though I would lay it out here.  It is a rerelease of some sort but is pretty much the exact same poster as the original release except for the "RERELEASED" text...  It is beat to hell and needs restoration.

$800 
OBO




That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
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Comments

  • jayn_jjayn_j Member Posts: 528 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    Now where did I put my 11' pole?
    - Jay -
    Curmudgeon in training 
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,084 admin
    Well, I’ve gotten no bites... What do you guys think is a reasonable price for this poster?
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
    www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook
  • DavidDavid Administrator Posts: 10,111 admin
    I would have thought $800 is a good price - $5K - $10K expected for an original on HA soon.  Restored I'd have thought $2K +/-
    David
  • BruceBruce Member Posts: 777 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    Except a reissue might be $1,500 in nice shape.
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  • DavidDavid Administrator Posts: 10,111 admin
    Bruce said:
    Except a reissue might be $1,500 in nice shape.
    $2K +/- was about right then

    Given Charlie's one is probably the only one I could find (none in Bruce's database or HA's), and it's an exact copy of the original it may even go for more... Bruce's ones are from the 50s, it appears there was a re-release in 1948, likely this one then?
    David
  • HONDOHONDO Member Posts: 7,234 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    It appears to me to be an original release 1938 poster with the word ''rereleased'' added sometime later. Has Bruce or anyone else ever seen an official re-release poster of any description using an exact original poster design, with just the wording '' rereleased'' added to it ?
    Lawrence
  • DavidDavid Administrator Posts: 10,111 admin
    Do you think they would have carry over posters to do an overprint on 10 years later?
    David
  • BruceBruce Member Posts: 777 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    HONDO said:
    It appears to me to be an original release 1938 poster with the word ''rereleased'' added sometime later. Has Bruce or anyone else ever seen an official re-release poster of any description using an exact original poster design, with just the wording '' rereleased'' added to it ?
    That is not correct Lawrence. It is almost surely from 1943 or 1944. With many of their stars in the service, and with their European distribution in tatters, Warners re-released their top late 1930s hits in those two years. They mostly used the same plates, and the one-sheets and title cards sometimes had "Rereleased" added to them (but sometimes not), and the scenes had nothing added, but the paper on the lobbies went from a "linen-like" texture to a flat finish.

    However, on this poster, it IS certainly possible the word "Rereleased" was hand painted on, but Charlie never mentioned that, and I would think he could tell by looking at the actual poster. Also, if he will provide a closeup of the litho number at the bottom (or what those numbers are), then I can almost surely date the poster based on that.

    Here is the title card that goes with the (to now) undated 1940s re-release of this movie:



    And note that Charlie's poster is definitely NOT from the 1948 re-release, because that went through NSS, and his poster would have a 1948 NSS number if it is from that release, which it does not. Here is the title card from 1948:



    Finally, here is another Cagney re-release of a 1935 movie that was re-released in 1944 (we were able to date that one from the litho number on the re-release one-sheet, like I hope to do with Charlie's poster):



    Note the small "re-release" next to the Warner Bros.
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  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,084 admin
    edited January 19
    I dug it out again and I’ll throw up more detailed pictures when I get in front of an actual computer.  There are printing marks below the “G” on the original that match those on this poster.  So they were definetly from the same plates.  There are no differences other than “RERELEASED” on the poster.  There is no NSS number on the poster other than the litho number that matches the original “9204”... For the life of me I can’t say the RERELEASED wasn’t printed on but could have been screen printed with the same ink since there is a box mark under the “A”... The other note to this is the stamp on the back say “Warner First Nat’l” and there is a Canadian censor stamp on front...  Would an international release been considered a rerelease?
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
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  • HONDOHONDO Member Posts: 7,234 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    edited January 19
    Bruce said:
    HONDO said:
    It appears to me to be an original release 1938 poster with the word ''rereleased'' added sometime later. Has Bruce or anyone else ever seen an official re-release poster of any description using an exact original poster design, with just the wording '' rereleased'' added to it ?
    That is not correct Lawrence. It is almost surely from 1943 or 1944. With many of their stars in the service, and with their European distribution in tatters, Warners re-released their top late 1930s hits in those two years. They mostly used the same plates, and the one-sheets and title cards sometimes had "Rereleased" added to them (but sometimes not), and the scenes had nothing added, but the paper on the lobbies went from a "linen-like" texture to a flat finish.

    However, on this poster, it IS certainly possible the word "Rereleased" was hand painted on, but Charlie never mentioned that, and I would think he could tell by looking at the actual poster. Also, if he will provide a closeup of the litho number at the bottom (or what those numbers are), then I can almost surely date the poster based on that.





    Finally, here is another Cagney re-release of a 1935 movie that was re-released in 1944 (we were able to date that one from the litho number on the re-release one-sheet, like I hope to do with Charlie's poster):



    Note the small "re-release" next to the Warner Bros.
    The above Frisco Kid lobby card example wasn't  taken from the plates used in 1935. My original question was '' Has Bruce or anyone else ever seen an official re-release poster of any description using an exact original poster design, with just the word ''re-released added to it?'' In the case of this film it had a Warner Bros. Productions Corp. Picture credit appearing on the original title lobby card and not just Presented by Warner Bros as shown above and on the other scene lobby cards from the 1944 re-release, Warner Bros. Picture. appears. The style of the 1944 rr title lobby card is also completely different from the original title card in presentation also.
    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member Posts: 7,234 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Charlie said:
    I dug it out again and I’ll throw up more detailed pictures when I get in front of an actual computer.  There are printing marks below the “G” on the original that match those on this poster.  So they were definetly from the same plates.  There are no differences other than “RERELEASED” on the poster.  There is no NSS number on the poster other than the litho number that matches the original “9204”... For the life of me I can’t say the RERELEASED wasn’t printed on but could have been screen printed with the same ink since there is a box mark under the “A”... The other note to this is the stamp on the back say “Warner First Nat’l” and there is a Canadian censor stamp on front...  Would an international release been considered a rerelease?
    Warner First Nat'l doesn't help as this name was used both in the the 1930's and the 1940's, so we cannot narrow the date down. I wouldn't think an international release would have been considered a re-release. Looking forward to your more detailed pictures Charlie.
    Lawrence
  • BruceBruce Member Posts: 777 ✭✭✭ Daybiller



    Finally, here is another Cagney re-release of a 1935 movie that was re-released in 1944 (we were able to date that one from the litho number on the re-release one-sheet, like I hope to do with Charlie's poster):



    Note the small "re-release" next to the Warner Bros.
    The above Frisco Kid lobby card example wasn't  taken from the plates used in 1935. My original question was '' Has Bruce or anyone else ever seen an official re-release poster of any description using an exact original poster design, with just the word ''re-released added to it?'' In the case of this film it had a Warner Bros. Productions Corp. Picture credit appearing on the original title lobby card and not just Presented by Warner Bros as shown above and on the other scene lobby cards from the 1944 re-release, Warner Bros. Picture. appears. The style of the 1944 rr title lobby card is also completely different from the original title card in presentation also.
    Sigh

    I wasn't saying that the re-release card I posted was from the original plates. I just was illustrating the use of "re-release".

    Here is Tropic Zone, where it very much DOES appear they used the original plates, but added "re-released" (this time, in a box):



    and the original, for comparison:


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  • BruceBruce Member Posts: 777 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    Charlie said:
    I dug it out again and I’ll throw up more detailed pictures when I get in front of an actual computer.  There are printing marks below the “G” on the original that match those on this poster.  So they were definetly from the same plates.  There are no differences other than “RERELEASED” on the poster.  There is no NSS number on the poster other than the litho number that matches the original “9204”... For the life of me I can’t say the RERELEASED wasn’t printed on but could have been screen printed with the same ink since there is a box mark under the “A”... The other note to this is the stamp on the back say “Warner First Nat’l” and there is a Canadian censor stamp on front...  Would an international release been considered a rerelease?
    If the litho numbers are the same, you almost surely have an original, but with the word "RERELEASED" stenciled on. I can't think of a single older rerelease where the litho number remained unchanged.

    But the much larger problem is the painted over gun. Whatever paint Canadian censors used is never removable. It bonds in with the paper, and anything that would take it off would remove the ink too. So that area needs to be painted over and recreated. Doable, but the poster will look dipped in paint. And of course it has many other defects, as well.


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  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,084 admin
    Ok pictures:

    Bottom right:


    Untitled


    Untitled
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
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  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,084 admin
    Center:


    Untitled

    Bottom Left:


    Untitled
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
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  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,084 admin
    Original from HA:


    Untitled

    Notice the "G":  and not the line headed to the right under the "RERELEASED"...




    Untitled
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
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  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,084 admin
    Other images:


    Untitled


    Untitled
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
    www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,084 admin
    I looked up continental litho and the number is the plate number according to LAMP.  So since the plate numbers match then it must be at least made with the same plate.  
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
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  • CSM_2_Point_0CSM_2_Point_0 Member Posts: 762 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    I seriously considered making you an offer Charlie but I am absolutely terrified of sending anything out for restoration now (and this would clearly need extensive work just to be presentable).  Still a nice poster!

    I wonder if there is a support group out there for me?  :s
    -Chris

    There's a street of lights

    A long dark night
    Restaurant scenes
    And dark machines...

  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,084 admin
    edited January 19
    With this new study into the poster, it may have been karma not to have gotten any bites.  If there is a consensus that it is an original with modifications that is...   
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
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