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Why do dealers get offended...

CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,177 admin
edited January 5 in Dealer Feedback
When a buyer tries to negotiate a lower price.  Posters are not commodities and if a collector is not trying to find items for the lowest cost he can, he should be ashamed.  A true collector should strive to maximize his resources to the efficiency of his collecting goals.  Why pay $100 for one poster and have to skip the second, when you could attempt to negotiate to buy both for the $100.  

I may be a different collector in this regard but why is this concept shocking to dealers??? It is really the only truly efficient and smart way to collect.  

I got slammed by some by a self absorbed (whispering under my breath “an Aussie”) collector/trader/seller the other day for questioning why sellers insist on stating that people not waste their time with low offers.  Who cares if you get a low offer - just say “no”!  

What it really amounts to is people tend to price based on what “they” think their wares are worth rather than a true value based on what an efficient collector would pay.  And when a brave collector finally stands up and basically says “I want that but I only think it is worth X” the dealer calls them an idiot.  

Yeah I understand it can go both ways - a dealer wants to maximize profits.  But honestly, from experience, if you are trying to sell posters at a fixed price - you probably aren’t doing it as a sole source of income. Especially if you aren’t willing to negotiate and you think of your buyers as idiots.  

Thoughts?
Post edited by Charlie on
That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook

Comments

  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,789 admin
    Do you think this offense by making a "low offer" for a poster is unique to poster dealers? I've only made one purchase where i've made offers for posters (daybills) and my experience was satisfactory as I had a limit, and was able to negotiate a bit for what i wanted. ....nearly all my other purchases have been through auction. 

    I used to collect coins, and purchased from a local online co, in Scottsdale, and several dealers in the Phx metro area. I would regularly "bargain" for a lower price on coins, especially if i was purchasing more than one. 

    IMO, dealers can take offense of "low offers" but the reality as I understand, is that markups exist for all "fixed priced" items. How much profit a dealer wants to make, and how quickly they want to move their product will determine how much they are willing to negotiate. 

    I've always heard on this site by many, a poster is only worth what someone is willing to pay today, or tomorrow, or the next day, and nothing is fixed. To get slammed by a dealer for an offer is bad business as I see it. 
  • jayn_jjayn_j Member, Singin Dancing Fool, Lobby Master Posts: 568 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    I guess know your dealer.  Don't waste your time on some.
    But many others can and do negotiate, especially if you approach it respectfully.  I purchased a group of desirable lobby cards recently.  The dealer mailed me a list of what he had that met my needs, along with their retail prices.  I mailed back an offer that was about 20% lower and bought the cards.  No fuss, and both parties were happy.  He got rid of stock, and I felt I got a bargain.

    If eBay has a make an offer field, go ahead and make one.  Can't hurt.  If the offer was fair and gets rejected, message back and ask what it would take.  That way the pricing is on him.  He knows you will pass at his posted price, and he knows your no hassle offer.  A reasonable seller can work with that.
    - Jay -
    Curmudgeon in training 
  • PanchoPancho Member Posts: 568 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    I was looking to buy an OOP Blu-ray the other day. It was 26GBP or make an offer. I offered 18 and he countered with 25!! 1 pound off!! Seriously, why even say you'll take offers?

    I regularly look to bundle and discount where I can and I'm polite about it (I think). I recently bargained a seller down from $50 to $20 for a daybill I was after. I politely asked if they'd accept an offer and, once they said they would, I pointed out that whilst it was a nice poster, it wasn't worth more than the one I'd just bought from them for $25. They seemed happy with that :-)

    I totally agree with the previous comments. A seller doesn't have to accept an offer, so why be rude about it? Just decline it and move on.
  • MattMatt Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,893 admin
    edited January 4

    It's a double edged sword. Lot of things must be considered.

    1. Is the price, a reasonable "retail" price.

    2. Too over, the seller has accounted for that best offer come back. So they should expect something in the 20%+ range in an offer.

    3. Something around retail, the seller should expect a 5 to 15% discount offer.

    4. If it is around retail value, don't offer 25%+ discount in the offer, unless purchasing multiple items.

    5. Don't piss off sellers with a 40%+ discount on retail prices (especially when the buyer quotes 5-8 year+ historical price record.)

    6. As a buyer don't quote other international posters for the same title that are cheaper. (Then we go into design, quality, demand, supply etc.)

    Is the seller educated?

    Is the buyer educated?

    The last two questions relate to time and knowledge in the hobby.

    Run out questions right now. Great topic!

  • jayn_jjayn_j Member, Singin Dancing Fool, Lobby Master Posts: 568 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    great response, Matt

    - Jay -
    Curmudgeon in training 
  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,160 admin
    Based on what I see/experience IMHO opinion 80% of movie posters sales online do not go to 'efficient collectors'.

    As to why a dealer might say something stupid like 'people don't waste his time with low offers' is beyond me, the question is who defines what 'low' is? So that dealer is a obviously moron because who cares if someone makes an offer if it's polite then a simple and just as polite " no thanks" doesn't waste much ink. 

    That said, if you are going to make an offer then politeness will get you a long way, as opposed to this exchange:

    "That XYZ poster is too expensive. Would you take $123 for it instead?"

    "Hi, thanks for your email - is there another one for sale or that has sold in recent times you can point to that I can compare the price to?"

    "No, never seen one before. But it's way too dear"

    "Hi, thanks for the reply. Do you already own a copy of this poster?"

    "No, why?"

    "Well you might be interested to know I own the only one you have ever seen and $456 is still the price I am selling it for."

    David
  • JohnJohn Member, Dealer Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    There is no reason for a dealer to be offended by an offer. Dealing with offers is part of doing business these days and even the department stores encourage them. Obviously the exchange of emails should be polite. I am always happy to consider offers although I'm not always going to be able to accommodate the buyer.

    Just one thing. Charlie mentions that the person who got upset was an "Aussie dealer/collector". There aren't many Aussies who could be called dealers and sometimes people reading these threads can jump to the wrong conclusions about who the culprit is!
    John

  • MattMatt Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,893 admin

    I had, years ago a poster for sale worth at least 1000-1100. So I put it on for 1200.

    I had an offer of 550.

    I was offended. Seriously.

    So John and Dave, what would you say to the potential buyer who gave this offer? You guys have more experience in this.

  • 110x75110x75 Member, Sarli Connoisseur Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Matt said:
    So John and Dave, what would you say to the potential buyer who gave this offer?

  • BruceBruce Member, Captain Movie Poster Posts: 814 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    When I get offers on my fixed price items, I explain that the price is the price, and that is that. I go through no mental anguish because they offered a much lower price than I was asking.

    It reminds me of a line from one of my favorite movies, Paths of Glory:

    Back in my hometown, there was a certain little cafe... with an amusing sign over the bar. It read, "Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."

    We (eMoviePoster.com) hold 3,000 auctions a week, 138,000 a year.
    See all of our current auctions in one gallery here: http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/all.html
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,177 admin
    John said:

    Just one thing. Charlie mentions that the person who got upset was an "Aussie dealer/collector". There aren't many Aussies who could be called dealers and sometimes people reading these threads can jump to the wrong conclusions about who the culprit is!
    Just to clarify it was not a professional dealer like John it was a hobbyist/collector selling/trading...  
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
    www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,177 admin
    edited January 5
    Matt said:

    I had, years ago a poster for sale worth at least 1000-1100. So I put it on for 1200.

    I had an offer of 550.

    I was offended. Seriously.

    So John and Dave, what would you say to the potential buyer who gave this offer? You guys have more experience in this.

    So maybe the offense falls along the distinction of whether you consider or are considered a collector first or a dealer first.  Matt, no offense, but I would not consider you a dealer first.  I would not consider the irrational collector/trader a dealer first.  This post originated from comments on Facebook about how a customer made an offer and an eBay seller (I don’t know the poster) suggested the customer was in short a #$*^%*! moron.  

    I think true professionals like John, Bruce and often David (;) I got my posters the other day - thanks) don’t hold any sentimental attachment to the posters they are selling.  Whereas a hobbyist seller has this emotional attachment or can’t separate his attachment to posters he is selling - most likely that he once collected or that are duplicates of posters he has in his collection. So a hobbyist seller doesn’t see his poster as a mechanism for profit but like a child that he has housed and taken care of or even what the sale of that poster might buy in terms of other posters. 

    Perhaps a true seperation between professionals and hobbyist - the offer situation response.
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
    www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook
  • HereComesMongoHereComesMongo Member Posts: 833 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    Got several low offers for my BAT but I showed that I was matching EMP/HA recent auction prices and was already by far the best BIN deal and after 30 days found a buyer....
    Mel S. Hutson
    Charlotte, NC USA
    My reference website: moviepostercollectors.guide
    My Current Poster Collection



  • jayn_jjayn_j Member, Singin Dancing Fool, Lobby Master Posts: 568 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    Matt said:

    I had, years ago a poster for sale worth at least 1000-1100. So I put it on for 1200.

    I had an offer of 550.

    I was offended. Seriously.

    So John and Dave, what would you say to the potential buyer who gave this offer? You guys have more experience in this.

    Don't see why.  I would just catagorize him as that guy who isn't going to buy my poster  :)
    Now, if he comes back and becomes obnoxious, that's a different kettle of fish.
    - Jay -
    Curmudgeon in training 
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,177 admin
    Got several low offers for my BAT but I showed that I was matching EMP/HA recent auction prices and was already by far the best BIN deal and after 30 days found a buyer....
    Collectors whom sell their BAT OS could be a whole new thread... lol
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
    www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook
  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,160 admin
    Matt said:

    So John and Dave, what would you say to the potential buyer who gave this offer? You guys have more experience in this.


    I have two answers:

    1. If am prepared to accept an offer and the price is close enough then I will either accept or counter offer.
    2. Or, if I am not interested then: "Thanks for your offer but I am comfortable where the price is"

    Generally I believe I have priced my gear at what I think is a reasonable price, but often buyers like to make an offer because it's on eBay and they think that's how the game is played. It's hugely unlikely I will drop my prices on eBay, the costs to trade on eBay pretty much remove that option.

    I don't get upset at offers, low ball or otherwise and I certainly would never set a price with a caveat saying 'no low offers' - it's ridiculous, the dealer obvious rates himself.
    David
  • JohnJohn Member, Dealer Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    David said:
    Matt said:

    So John and Dave, what would you say to the potential buyer who gave this offer? You guys have more experience in this.


    I have two answers:

    1. If am prepared to accept an offer and the price is close enough then I will either accept or counter offer.
    2. Or, if I am not interested then: "Thanks for your offer but I am comfortable where the price is"

    Generally I believe I have priced my gear at what I think is a reasonable price, but often buyers like to make an offer because it's on eBay and they think that's how the game is played. It's hugely unlikely I will drop my prices on eBay, the costs to trade on eBay pretty much remove that option.

    I don't get upset at offers, low ball or otherwise and I certainly would never set a price with a caveat saying 'no low offers' - it's ridiculous, the dealer obvious rates himself.
    That's all pretty much how I feel.
    John

  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,160 admin
    edited January 5
    Charlie said:
    John said:

    Just one thing. Charlie mentions that the person who got upset was an "Aussie dealer/collector". There aren't many Aussies who could be called dealers and sometimes people reading these threads can jump to the wrong conclusions about who the culprit is!
    Just to clarify it was not a professional dealer like John it was a hobbyist/collector selling/trading...  
    Wasn't me either even though Charlie won't admit it!
    Post edited by David on
    David
  • MattMatt Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,893 admin

    I'm definitely not a dealer. I don't think I could handle it unless it was a full time job.

    I'm always polite when refusing an offer, but like Jay said...come back being obnoxious...look out! 

  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,177 admin
    Why do dealers feel the need to call out other dealers?  And then why exaggerate a situationcalling the situation something it is not?  It’s dangerous especially for a new collector that could read it wrong.  I feel like the dealers on VMPF are like the rebels of Star Wars and the dealers on APF are like the dark side trying to Empire build through death, destruction and oppression.  I mean there are not that many of them but why do they like to go all Tonya Harding on each other.
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
    www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook
  • HereComesMongoHereComesMongo Member Posts: 833 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    I noticed these threads but avoided them on principle....
    Mel S. Hutson
    Charlotte, NC USA
    My reference website: moviepostercollectors.guide
    My Current Poster Collection



  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,177 admin
    Good for you.. I’m attracted to gossip...  Maybe to try to figure out why people behave a certain way.
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
    www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,789 admin
    Charlie said:
      Maybe to try to figure out why people behave a certain way.
    Good luck with that one. Certainly challenging. 
  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,160 admin
    Charlie said:
    Why do dealers feel the need to call out other dealers?  
    Could be wrong but I have never seen an Aussie dealer bad mouth another in public.
    David
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