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What do you expect when you send your poster off for restoration?

CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,265 admin
I put up this poll on APF after some debate on my blog post... Thought I would see what we think about it.
That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...

What do you expect when you send your poster off for restoration? 11 votes

I don't care about conservation but that the poster looks awesome when I get it back.
0%
I expect that my poster will have some conservation treatment but know it is not truly conserved.
9%
Paul 1 vote
I expect conservation to be a priority throughout the entire process.
36%
Charlie[Deleted User]Eisenhowerracer59 4 votes
I assumed restoration was preservation and conservation.
45%
DavidHumphreyBogartMarkZorbaGoldeneye 5 votes
I am uneducated about the process and have to trust that the restorer will do what is best for my poster.
9%
Matt 1 vote
«1

Comments

  • JohnJohn Member, Dealer Posts: 1,133 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    edited September 2014

    Would be possible to add another point to the poll:

    I expect the poster to remain in the same condition that it was originally backed and not deteriorate over time.

    John

  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,213 admin
    I assumed restoration was preservation and conservation.
    What's an APF?
    David
  • MirosaeMirosae Member Posts: 851 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    Hi Charlie Can I add another please? "I expect just restoration work. Nothing else -no conservation unless I specifically ask for it? " If I want conservation I let her or him know. As it happens I had a LC just restored (minor touch ups to the artwork). And yes....I expect restoration to be carried out with utmost respect for the integrity of the poster. Luv me posters... :x
    Rosa -
    Love some paper
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,265 admin
    I expect conservation to be a priority throughout the entire process.
    John said:

    Would be possible to add another point to the poll:

    I expect the poster to remain in the same condition that it was originally backed and not deteriorate over time.

    That is #3...
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
  • MattMatt Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 5,037 admin
    edited September 2014
    I am uneducated about the process and have to trust that the restorer will do what is best for my poster.
    When I send my posters off for restoration, I expect a lot more than just preservation and conservation. That's why I send them to a one man band, not a team of 9 to 5'ers. The finger can only be pointed at one person and that finger is actually (always) a thumbs up.
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,265 admin
    I expect conservation to be a priority throughout the entire process.
    Mirosae said:
    Hi Charlie Can I add another please? "I expect just restoration work. Nothing else -no conservation unless I specifically ask for it? " If I want conservation I let her or him know. As it happens I had a LC just restored (minor touch ups to the artwork). And yes....I expect restoration to be carried out with utmost respect for the integrity of the poster. Luv me posters... :x
    This is option number 1...  That is what restoration mean to you, correct?  
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
  • PaulPaul Member, Quad Master Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    I expect that my poster will have some conservation treatment but know it is not truly conserved.
    I never voted, but expect the poster to look like I want it too.  I expect the de-acification to help it last longer, but don't think they will last for ever...
    It's more than a Hobby...
  • MattMatt Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 5,037 admin
    I am uneducated about the process and have to trust that the restorer will do what is best for my poster.
    I'm a non voter too. Not enough options. :-S
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,265 admin
    I expect conservation to be a priority throughout the entire process.
    OK Guys Explain!!!  What do you expect?  I think regardless of votes, it is important to define what we as collectors think when we hear "restoration"...  No one ever says I am send my poster out for conservation...
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
  • MattMatt Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 5,037 admin
    I am uneducated about the process and have to trust that the restorer will do what is best for my poster.
    Well, it's the wording of the options. I would of voted #5 but I'm slightly educated in the processes.

    Basically, I would never have a poster backed as is without a wash and deacid bath. That's just plain stupid IMO.
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,265 admin
    I expect conservation to be a priority throughout the entire process.
    Well pick which one is the closest...
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
  • MattMatt Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 5,037 admin
    I am uneducated about the process and have to trust that the restorer will do what is best for my poster.
    Ok I voted, I trust my restorer, but I wouldn't 'trust' many others!
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,265 admin
    edited September 2014
    I expect conservation to be a priority throughout the entire process.
    David said:
    What's an APF?
    Check these out...
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
  • MattMatt Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 5,037 admin
    I am uneducated about the process and have to trust that the restorer will do what is best for my poster.
    My neighbor around the corner works for the AFP...I get dyslexic with letters sometimes.
  • PaulPaul Member, Quad Master Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    I expect that my poster will have some conservation treatment but know it is not truly conserved.
    I thought it was Anderson Provis Films....


    It's more than a Hobby...
  • MirosaeMirosae Member Posts: 851 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    My closest is #1 but it is NOT what restoration means to me. I actually think this poll is rather helpful and interesting as it challenges us all to think "how much you know about conservation/restoration". And it is a good question. I just think that some of us may feel we know a bit about it.. so fully aware that restoration is different from conservation which is an option missing from the poll...so guess #1 is closest ish.. (hey not claiming I'm a expert...not at all)..
    Rosa -
    Love some paper
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,265 admin
    edited September 2014
    I expect conservation to be a priority throughout the entire process.
    First what does restoration mean to you Rosa?  Spill it...  



    So from what I can tell from the two polls, you basically have global terms (A) "restoration", "linenbacked", and "restored" as "I am sending it off to get restored or for a restoration".

    And two independent technical terms  (B.) "conservation", (C.)"(image) restoration" and "(paper) restoration" which can be included under the global term.  So to turn it into a math problem:

    Does A = C? | If you want your poster's image and paper loss restored and don't care about conservation, then yes. - this is #1.  You don't care about"conservation" only the resulting - "restoration".

    Does A = B? | B can be accomplished without C.  But we can say B=B and C=C.

    Does A = B+C? | It can be but not always done unless requested.


    Now lets add the term I was discussing "Conservation Priority Restoration" and call it "X".  What does this mean?  All work done to the paper from wet work, paper fills, and art infilling is done with conservation best practices.  For example, you don't want a restorer to use wall paper paste as an adhesive or spackle for paper fills. Permanent mediums are also discouraged.

    X = B+C - Always.

    Does A=X?  No.

    You will be graded!




    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
  • MirosaeMirosae Member Posts: 851 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    You get an A+ Charlie!
    Rosa -
    Love some paper
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,265 admin
    I expect conservation to be a priority throughout the entire process.
    I chuckled when I read.  "So you think you are smart" under your post.  Of course, you just told me I got and A+!
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,265 admin
    edited September 2014
    I expect conservation to be a priority throughout the entire process.
    I should add:

    Does A=X?  Not always.  

    But X=X.  

    Of course it's all preference anyway.  

    But what irks me is when a restorer sells you X and you are getting C + B/Y... Where Y is equal to the number of non conservative practices used.



    :-B
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,213 admin
    I assumed restoration was preservation and conservation.
    Well me being simple folk, I  assume that when the description on said restorers website says that part of the process is a de-acidifying bath then I am assuming there is some sort of conservation going on...
    David
  • MarkMark Member Posts: 570 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    I assumed restoration was preservation and conservation.
    Do any restorers test the acidity before or after?
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,265 admin
    I expect conservation to be a priority throughout the entire process.
    Probably not mark. Especially if they are deacidifying it anyway. Good experiment idea though.
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,979 admin
    I expect conservation to be a priority throughout the entire process.
    Ive only used Poster Conservation for my OS and the few HS, but have emailed/discussed what restoration i expected to be done. Cant imagine just sending off paper to be backed and not knowing what practices they employed to conserve, or worse they restore/use materials that arent archival. Or as ive read with disbelief, wallpaper paste???
  • racer59racer59 Member Posts: 89 ✭✭ One-Sheeter
    I expect conservation to be a priority throughout the entire process.
    Looking at these linen backed posters that are up for auction recently and I'm noticing that a good deal of them are not very good jobs. I see a bunch have some pretty bad stains that would have been improved even with a half assed wash. I'm assuming that these are not professional jobs. I may be wrong. Is it common for a poster to just be backed with out being, at the very least deacidified?
     
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,265 admin
    I expect conservation to be a priority throughout the entire process.
    I could rant...  
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,979 admin
    I expect conservation to be a priority throughout the entire process.
    I agree Fernando. I was going to ask why so many are backed in the "European Style?" As I've followed Charlie's threads I remember he commented very quickly that the art restoration, the pencils, paints, burnishing work, etc., was the real challenge in the skills of poster conservation & restoration. I've never bought a linen backed poster-after reading the thread which discussed wallpaper paste as an adhesive? If it can't be verified who linen backed the poster how can you make a safe purchase? I can see why so many questions should be asked of sending paper to be conserved/restored.
  • MattMatt Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 5,037 admin
    I am uneducated about the process and have to trust that the restorer will do what is best for my poster.
    Re-workmanship  I was thinking the same thing too, some of the touch up work is below par.
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,979 admin
    I expect conservation to be a priority throughout the entire process.
    Was looking at the London After Midnight poster that sold for $478,000. Was not surprised to see that it was not linen backed. Did it sell for more that it wasn't backed?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    I expect conservation to be a priority throughout the entire process.
    Was looking at the London After Midnight poster that sold for $478,000. Was not surprised to see that it was not linen backed. Did it sell for more that it wasn't backed?
    I think in the case of that poster - being the only known copy - it would not matter.

    However, if there were two and one was not backed but in the same condition as the one that sold - that would probably affect the outcome vs. the backed copy (especially if the backed copy needed a lot of restoration)
    Chris
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