Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man

DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,246 admin
Just been listed, and in NZ$ - that's a bargain in any currency!


image
David
«134

Comments

  • JohnJohn Member, Dealer Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,246 admin
    For those not members of MoPo, I feel it reasonable to share this discussion about the (The Third Man) poster

    David
  • JohnJohn Member, Dealer Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter

    It appears that there is nothing definitive to prove either way whether the poster was printed for the original 1949 release or for the first release in New Zealand (whenever that may have been) or a later 50s re release. I have come across many British one sheets in New Zealand. They seemed to get a variety of posters that were often quite unique. Lets hope someone can come up with proof as to when it was released.

    John

  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,246 admin
    edited June 2015
    As I have said there, I lean toward an original poster for a first release overseas (somewhere in the world).

    It certainly confirms the minefield that exists for non US posters.
    David
  • JohnJohn Member, Dealer Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Did you try contacting Greg Edwards? He might know more about it.
    John

  • theartofmovieposterstheartofmovieposters Member Posts: 4,032 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    John said:
    Did you try contacting Greg Edwards? He might know more about it.
    I was gonna suggest Phil, but yeah Greg would be great.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Flip a coin and pick your Edwards
    Chris
  • PaulPaul Member, Quad Master Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    edited June 2015
    When reading the mopo discussion it's amazing that people run their mouths/comment without knowing what they are talking about... 

    Still it's nice to see a discussion on posters over there, than just a long list of for sales...
    It's more than a Hobby...
  • theartofmovieposterstheartofmovieposters Member Posts: 4,032 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Oh, who is the UK Expert?
  • JohnJohn Member, Dealer Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    John said:
    Did you try contacting Greg Edwards? He might know more about it.
    I was gonna suggest Phil, but yeah Greg would be great.
    Both Phil and Greg might have some good input. Greg used to have a gallery in London but I think just deals on ebay now. He would have a wealth of knowledge on UK posters.
    John

  • theartofmovieposterstheartofmovieposters Member Posts: 4,032 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    edited June 2015

    I'm pretty sure they know each other really well.

    When I first started, I kept thinking they were the same person!  Idjit!

  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,339 admin
    edited June 2015
    Do you think Jeff has it out for David/bidll???    He just sent his first legit response via Bruce but everything before that post was more like "kudos boys for showing up David!"...  The sad thing is that it is the seller that will get hurt and people have yet to figure that bidll is just an auction site.  I am all for figuring out RR vs. Original but framing the conversation on whether bidll gives a money back guarantee is stupid.  Does eBay give a money back guarantee after 45 days?  

    If robocop wants to give a guarantee then he can but how does bidll policy play into it?     
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Part of the issue is that people seem to equate David's advertisements of bidl auctions with those items being his or at the very least consigned to him when obviously neither is the case. For the small commission he charges hard to see any other auction site that would advertise users' items as extensively...
    Chris
  • BruceBruce Member, Captain Movie Poster Posts: 892 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    edited June 2015
    Here are my thoughts on this poster, as was posted by Jeff on MoPo. He asked me to give them, and I did, because I have a strong opinion on this:
    I personally think it is very likely that it is from 1955 or so. Here is why.
    
    IMDb only lists a handful of films from Lion International. But because we have auctioned a zillion English one-sheets, WE know that there are at least 92 from 1955 on. There is not ONE that is from before 1955 other than the disputed Third Man poster. 36 of the 92 are from exactly 1955 to 1959.

    When you combine this with the stuff MoPo members found online, I think that is pretty definitive. In addition, there is the issue of the poster being unfolded. Again, I have sold a zillion English one-sheets, and the ONLY other one that was unfolded was the African Queen re-release, which is surprisingly similar to the Third Man re-release, because it has a very similar image to the English original, except it is not as finely detailed, and it has been found unfolded, but it has no printer information on it (unlike the Third Man poster in question).

    I think I would have an even more definite opinion if I saw this poster in person. I know that studios used the same type paper for a number of years, and when they changed, they changed for all their printing. That is how you can pinpoint a poster to a specific handful of years, or a decade. The English one-sheets I have handled have remarkably similar paper. If this poster had paper that was at all different, that would be even more reason to be sure it was not from the same year.

    Put it all together, and I think you certainly have far more than a reasonable doubt, and I would certainly auction this poster as "undated, likely a mid-1950s re-release, likely for the international distribution". There is also re-release one-sheet which is very similar to the African Queen one (no printing on the bottom), and I would think both that and the African Queen are from the late 1950s or early 1960s.

    The reason the poster was entered incorrectly in our database was that we never auctioned it. It is one of the tens of thousands of posters that Richard Allen owned and photographed when amassing his archive. When those were put online, some mistakes crept in, and this is one of them. I have corrected it to match what I wrote above.

    Finally, as David Kusumoto noted, we DID incorrectly auction a late 1950s re-release as original in one of our Christie's auctions. It does NOT appear in our database at all. WHY? Because the buyer contacted us ten years later and complained that we made a mistake, and we fully refunded him, so it can't be in our database, because it was not original, and we do not want to mislead people into thinking a reissue sold for that price. We took a huge loss on that, but that is just part of our "lifetime guarantee".
    We (eMoviePoster.com) hold 3,000 auctions a week, 138,000 a year.
    See all of our current auctions in one gallery here: http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/all.html
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    edited June 2015

    My two cents worth and remember i am an Australian film researcher ( not sure what to call myself ) and not an expert on U.K.paper.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Didn't notice the Lion International on the poster when I originally looked at it. The poster is definitely not from the original 1949 release  and at earliest a mid to late 1950's re-release. The name Lion International started to appear in the latter part of the 1950's and somewhere I have some details on this. Will have to look for it.

    It is a British one sheet and not neccessarily an international one sheet as advertised. I believe this call was made  because of the Lion International being on the poster but I am not saying it isn't an international one either.

    The poster isn't that rare as if you have a look at past auction history along with a similar daybill has been sold on numeroue occassions.on eMovieposter.com and before someone says it's the same one sheet poster being resold note one is graded as good to very good and another one very good to fine.

    But what drives a nail into the coffin that it is called original  is that any original 1949 posters would have had London films Production and the Londion films logo on them as per the attached image .Notice on the poster under discussion all mention of London Films has been removed.


    image

    To sum up- Definitely not 1949. May or may not be a domestic U.K. poster and possibly an international printed poster but undetermined. A re-release from most likely the latter part of the 1950's but could be later and again undertemined.


    Hondo





    Lawrence
  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,246 admin

    As you say you are "not an expert on UK paper" and really you should only say 'in your opinion', not 'definitely', if you read the thread to MoPo the jury is still out, even Bruce is only saying 'likely'. 

    David
  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,246 admin
    edited June 2015
    Charlie said:
    1. Do you think Jeff has it out for David/bidll???    

    2. If robocop wants to give a guarantee then he can but how does bidll policy play into it?     
    1. I don't know! It seemed there were dozens of people (on MoPo) who were offering all sorts of possibilties and helpful suggestions, everyone was wanting to find the facts and a lot of people were doing a lot of research to help contribute to the end findings. Sadly, Jeff was the only constant post that criticized. He really added no value to the conversation anywhere.

    2. Our policy is the effectively the same as Pierre Omidyar's policy ;)

    CSM said:
    Part of the issue is that people seem to equate David's advertisements of bidll auctions with those items being his or at the very least consigned to him when obviously neither is the case. For the small commission he charges hard to see any other auction site that would advertise users' items as extensively...
    This is probably true (people possibly do think the posters are mine or have been sent to me to sell), it's a long road, we may never change that opinion either.

    Bidll advertises posters that are worth promoting, not based on the owner of the poster. In this case The Third Man poster was going to be held over for the next Blue Ribbion event but personal reasons meant the owner wanted to advertise it immediately (I know the reason), once it hit the site I gave it the push I felt it deserved but as it was not part of the next Blue Ribbon event it probably didn't get the exposure it could have. Then again, it has been well talked about...not all bad I 'spose.
    David
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector

    I only said definitely to the release being not 1949. I think I have given enough information to say ( in my mind ) that the poster couldn't be 1949  for all the valid  reasons i presented earlier. I cannot see one piece of information to claim it is from 1949. One other point is i don't have to be an expert on UK paper to have presented the information that I have. The London Films and Lion International facts are indisputable, at least to me.

    I would like to hear from Bruce as to what he thinks of my comments and anyone else for that matter?


    Hondo

    Lawrence
  • PaulPaul Member, Quad Master Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    edited June 2015
    The one valid point Bruce makes is you need to see/feel the type of paper... that would be a good indicator of what period the poster comes from. 


    Where everyone is going wrong is London films were the producers, and Lion films were the distributors, so  just to have the distributors name on a poster is not unusual. The poster IS for overseas use and was distributed over there by Lion films international arm. The one HA sold was for use in the UK, hence the certificate being on the poster, and the mention of London films.

    Now if like some have said, Lion international wasn't formed until 1955, who distributed Lion's releases for them until that point??

    Based on the evidence ON the poster, which is all we have to go on I believe the poster is a first release for overseas. If it can be proved to be other I'd like to see the evidence, and not just speculation. 
    It's more than a Hobby...
  • RickRick Member Posts: 761 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    i don't know what it is, I just wish I had been quicker and bought it when it first came up for sale. 

  • PaulPaul Member, Quad Master Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    When did it first come up for sale Rick?
    It's more than a Hobby...
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    edited June 2015

    The following are facts and the evidence supporting a re-release post 1956.


    British Lion product  prior to 1956 was distributed in Australia along with London Films product  by London Films Australasia Pty. Ltd. through Universal Pictures.

    In 1956 with London  Films closing down  distribution operations due to the death of Alexander Korda  British Lion product commenced being distributed by the newly formed Lion International Films Ltd. The product to be through 20th Century Fox. This arrangement was to be short lived as by the end of the 1950's BEF had taken over the physical distribution from 20th Century Fox. 

    This to my thinking as  Lion International was formed in 1956 a 1949 poster wouldn't have had Lion Intrernational on it as it didn't exist until 1956 but it would have had London Films on it.


    Hondo


    Lawrence
  • RickRick Member Posts: 761 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    it was a while back, i saw it but didn't jump. I need to be more impulsive and richer!
  • JohnJohn Member, Dealer Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    It really is a pity when there is doubt about the release date of a poster like this. I will try and get some information from a couple of long time collectors in England but I do hope something definitive comes out one way or another.
    John

  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector

    image


    Alexander Korda founder of London Films died in 1956 and Lion International Films formed also in 1956.From this original poster  A London Films Production on the top and the London Films logo on the bottom right  were removed and the information under Carol Reed has been replaced by Distributed By Lion International  image as London Films as a producer / distributor of motion pictures had ceased operations.

    Lawrence
  • PaulPaul Member, Quad Master Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Rick said:
    it was a while back, i saw it but didn't jump. I need to be more impulsive and richer!
    We could all do with being richer... ;)
    It's more than a Hobby...
  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,246 admin
    Just had an email back from Greg Edwards in the UK (Rare Film Posters), who I asked after a suggestion from John Reid and Vesna - I told him the queries and pointed him to the MoPo thread.

    He kindly proved an answer very quickly, and I quote:

    "As the film was released in 1949 any original poster would have a 4 figure number in the bottom right corner which should start with a '9' and end in an 'A'.  If the poster is from 1950-51 it would have a 3 figure number but with no 'A'.  From some time in 1952 onwards it would be a 4 figure number, also with no 'A'."

    he also said:

    "The artwork is identical to the British quad.  The British Film Institute have a copy which I have attached for you (unfortunately not big enough to check the numbering)."

    I bet you are all rushing off to see what the BIDLL one says, I know and...whoops, it's my dinner time.

    Talk soon.


    ;)
    David
  • SvenSven Member Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Blast i cant make out whatnit says! Have you finished dinner yet david?
  • JohnJohn Member, Dealer Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Is Greg talking about a one sheet printed for the original UK release or the International release or do they both have the same information?
    John

  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,246 admin
Sign In or Register to comment.

This Vintage Movie Poster Forum is powered by some old cinema posters, the flame retardant properties of a Top Gun Daybill, and a
British Quad which has been folded just the right amount of times and shoved under one of the corners to stop the place from wobbling.