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The Adventures of Robin Hood Australian 3 Sheet

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  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,006 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Mark said:

    I think you're barking up the wrong tree here.

    Sea Hawk (WB 1940) 3sht was also printed by Victory. There is good reason to believe this is orig release because the tag line is referring back to Robin Hood in 1938.


    Who's barking up the wrong tree? As one can clearly see the wording on the Australian 3 sheet is an abridged version of what appears on the Australian newspaper advertisement of 30 January, 1951. Yes it refers to Robin hood but to the 1949 Australian re-release. The Sea Hawk was re-released in Australia circa 1950 and I am going to go out on a limb here and say definitely the 3 sheet was printed for this re-release.   
    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,006 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    John said:
    Just checked an original Dodge City herald - same WB logo as Robin Hood - similar time frame.

    !t is 1939 and the following year when I am suggesting the changeover of logos occurred in Australia.
    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,006 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector

                                                                      

    Mark said: Also WB used a plain shield logo between 1948-1952. See Silver River, Don Juan. It's a Great feeling, Montana and Mara Maru.

    Above is the only image I have been able to find and it isn't a plain logo.

    Lawrence
  • MarkMark Member Posts: 591 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    edited April 2016

    I have the Errol Flynn movie posters book by Lawrence Bassoff, and all the US material shows an un-banded logo between 1948 - 1952 (pics of original lobbies, posters etc).

    Saying the Sea Hawk 3sht is a re-release on the basis of that newspaper ad is drawing a long bow!! The artwork and tag line are taken straight from the orig release US 3 sheet, so definitely coming out of the WB advertising dept.


  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,006 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    edited April 2016
    John said:
    Well, I think he certainly has done some very good research but someone has paid a lot of money for that poster and we need to be very careful about suggesting that it is a reissue unless absolutely certain.

    For the record only I have only presented some facts as I  did with the RKO 4 star daybills. With the RKO 4 star information I asked for any images country to what I had stated to be posted to prove me wrong but to this point of time none have surfaced.I believe the Robin Hood poster to be a re-issue due to the printer's credits being incorrect for that period of time so again to prove my belief incorrect all one has to do is post an image of the VP Lithographed  & Printed By Victory Publicity Pty Ltd identification credit appearing on a pre 1944 poster. It's as simple as that. A daybill, one sheet or 3 sheet gives you a lot of options.
    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,006 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Mark said:

    I have the Errol Flynn movie posters book by Lawrence Bassoff, and all the US material shows an un-banded logo between 1948 - 1952 (pics of original lobbies, posters etc).

    Saying the Sea Hawk 3sht is a re-release on the basis of that newspaper ad is drawing a long bow!! The artwork and tag line are taken straight from the orig release US 3 sheet, so definitely coming out of the WB advertising dept.


    1) The Australians didn't follow the Americans apparently then. - 2) I'm not saying that for that reason only as the main reason is the printer's name presentation wasn't used in that format in 1938. See my previous comments.
    Lawrence
  • JohnJohn Member, Dealer Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    HONDO said:
    John said:
    Well, I think he certainly has done some very good research but someone has paid a lot of money for that poster and we need to be very careful about suggesting that it is a reissue unless absolutely certain.

    For the record only I have only presented some facts as I  did with the RKO 4 star daybills. With the RKO 4 star information I asked for any images country to what I had stated to be posted to prove me wrong but to this point of time none have surfaced.I believe the Robin Hood poster to be a re-issue due to the printer's credits being incorrect for that period of time so again to prove my belief incorrect all one has to do is post an image of the VP Lithographed  & Printed By Victory Publicity Pty Ltd identification credit appearing on a pre 1944 poster. It's as simple as that. A daybill, one sheet or 3 sheet gives you a lot of options.
    I'm not suggesting your theory is wrong. I don't know when the poster was printed. I simply posted an image of the Robin Hood herald which I thought was worth contributing to the discussion. Will you be contacting Heritage to let them know what you have found?
    John

  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,006 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Gave this
    John said:
    HONDO said:
    John said:
    Well, I think he certainly has done some very good research but someone has paid a lot of money for that poster and we need to be very careful about suggesting that it is a reissue unless absolutely certain.

    For the record only I have only presented some facts as I  did with the RKO 4 star daybills. With the RKO 4 star information I asked for any images country to what I had stated to be posted to prove me wrong but to this point of time none have surfaced.I believe the Robin Hood poster to be a re-issue due to the printer's credits being incorrect for that period of time so again to prove my belief incorrect all one has to do is post an image of the VP Lithographed  & Printed By Victory Publicity Pty Ltd identification credit appearing on a pre 1944 poster. It's as simple as that. A daybill, one sheet or 3 sheet gives you a lot of options.
    I'm not suggesting your theory is wrong. I don't know when the poster was printed. I simply posted an image of the Robin Hood herald which I thought was worth contributing to the discussion. Will you be contacting Heritage to let them know what you have found?

    I gave away trying to inform Heritage about this sort of thing years ago as they don't do anything about it.
    Lawrence
  • MattMatt Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 5,087 admin

    Kudos for Mark, Lawrence and John for a healthy, vigorous discussion on this topic. A most enjoyable read indeed!!!

    Keep up the good work!  

  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,006 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    A point I think is worth mentioning is Australian 3 sheets from the 1930s and very early 1940s are extremely rare and in particular from the 1930s ( over a long period of research not a one sited by me ). Seeing there are late 1940s into the 1950s  Warner Bros 3 sheets around I believe the chances of a poster from 1938 and one from 1940 as suggested that are in good condition and both starring Errol Flynn both being original and not re-releases from 1949 and 1950 seem to lean favour my argument a little I think. Not proof of course but just saying.
    Lawrence
  • BruceBruce Member, Captain Movie Poster Posts: 863 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    Are there many Australian WB three-sheets out there from ANY year? Here are the only ones I have auctioned.

    http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/tag/nation%3AAustralia/tag/xtype%3AAustralian%20three-sheet/sort/5/tag/studio%3AWarner%20Bros/archive.html

    We (eMoviePoster.com) hold 3,000 auctions a week, 138,000 a year.
    See all of our current auctions in one gallery here: http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/all.html
  • MarkMark Member Posts: 591 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    The question for me is this:
    Did they print identical three sheets for a re-release 11 years later on both Robin Hood & Sea Hawk?
    They might have, but I would need to see a RR press sheet or other more convincing proof to believe that. Certainly other companies didn't offer three sheets on RR at that time (will dig out a RR press sheet & post pic tomorrow).
    As I said previously, I think Lawrence has a good point with the Victory logo. They did use that logo for a long time after, and we can't tell before, because no other three sheet images are available for comparison. 
    A stalemate, and each has a right to their opinion based on their own experience of handling and researching Aussie paper.
    One positive aspect of these discussions is that the hobby is becoming more observant and generally more aware. In the past there was a lot of complacency, but that is changing, which is of benefit to all.
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,006 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Some good comment there Mark.
    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,006 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Bruce said:
    Are there many Australian WB three-sheets out there from ANY year? Here are the only ones I have auctioned.

    http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/tag/nation%3AAustralia/tag/xtype%3AAustralian%20three-sheet/sort/5/tag/studio%3AWarner%20Bros/archive.html

    The answer is no but here are a few others I am aware of -

    Big Jim McLain ( 1952 )

    Phantom Of The Rue Morgue ( 1954 )

    Sincerely Yours ( 1955 )

    4d Man ( 1959 )

    Who is Buried In My Grave? ( aka Dead Ringer ) ( 1964 )

    John turned up a lot of Australian 3 sheets with his Victorian barn find, probably including from memory Who Is Buried In My Grave? He may be able to supply some other WB titles from that find if any others were included.




    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,006 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    edited April 2016
     A couple of other Warner Bros. Australian film posters - The Charge Of The Light Brigade ( 1936 ) one sheet and Gentleman Jim ( 1942 ) daybill that are often credited as being original release posters when in fact are they are definitely re-releases from I believe circa 1950.  
    Lawrence
  • theartofmovieposterstheartofmovieposters Member Posts: 4,032 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Oh and very interesting read!  Thanks!
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,006 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
     Thanks Ves for posting this image of this Torchy Blane In Panama ( 1938 ) daybill. Pity the poster is trimmed so the printer's details are missing but the most important thing is the WB plain logo appears on this image and the film  appears was  first released in Australia in June, 1938 around the time of The Film Weekly advertisement appeared for The Adventures Of Robin Hood also with the plain WB logo appearing indicating to me anyway the first release posters of TAORH would have had the plain WB logo on them as well.
    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,006 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Just received an image of an original Australian poster for The Adventures Of Robin Hood from 1938. Not a three sheet poster though but an interesting poster nevertheless. That will keep you wondering for a little while i'm sure.
    Lawrence
  • RichRich Member, Dealer, Tea Lady Posts: 237 ✭✭ One-Sheeter
    HONDO said:
    Just received an image of an original Australian poster for The Adventures Of Robin Hood from 1938. Not a three sheet poster though but an interesting poster nevertheless. That will keep you wondering for a little while i'm sure.
    where's the pic
    Rich Halegua
    Visit MoviePosterBid
  • MarkMark Member Posts: 591 ✭✭✭ Daybiller

    Lawrence, I had a look at a lot more WB posters from the 1930s & '40s & am starting to lean your way on this.

    The Robin Hood one sheet HA sold was printed by Hackett Offset. Do you know if they ever printed any three sheets?

  • JohnJohn Member, Dealer Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    edited April 2016
    Is there a possibility that the three sheet was printed at the same time as the Herald ie late 1938? I have looked through my files for long daybills and the shield did appear to change in either late 1938 or early 1939 so that does tend to support your theory providing that we accept that the three sheet could not have been printed in late 1938 or early 1939 as were the heralds.
    John

  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,006 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
     The original Australian one sheet poster of  The Adventures of Robin Hood from 1938. Although you won't de able to read the printer's name  I can inform you it is Hacket Offset Printing Co. who seemed to be Warner Bros. Australia's preferred printer around this period. I believe this poster now strengthens my case. I have images of some WB daybills from around this period printed by Hackett Offset Printing who appeared to be the WB Prefered printer until around 1940 when Marchant & Co. took over this role for only a brief period before Victory Publicity commenced around 1943 when they settled in for a long association with WB Australia well into the 1950s.
    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,006 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Mark said:

    Lawrence, I had a look at a lot more WB posters from the 1930s & '40s & am starting to lean your way on this.

    The Robin Hood one sheet HA sold was printed by Hackett Offset. Do you know if they ever printed any three sheets?


    Good news Mark that a little support appears to be coming my way. A favour perhaps from you. Do you have a clear image of the poster you have just referred to so I can clearly see the WB logo as I wish to comment on it?
    Lawrence
  • JohnJohn Member, Dealer Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    HONDO said:

    2 ) Between 1934 - 1937 from U.S. records the logo that appeared on film posters was just WB appearing in a shield shape. Then between 1937-1938 the wording Warner Bros. Pictures, Inc. was added across the centre of the WB logo. Keep in mind in overseas countries including Australia in would have taken a little longer to change the logos.From a The Film Weekly trade publication a advertisement which appeared in the June 21, 1938 issue an advertisement for The Adventures Of Robin Hood has the plain WB only logo on it and from a newspaper advertisement for the Warner Bros. title Gold Is Where You Find It following  at the end of 1938 the plain WB logo also appears in print thus backing up my thoughts Australia took a lot longer to change over to the new style of advertising of the WB logo.

    3) The wording Warner Bros. Pictures Inc. Present which appeared on the top of Warner Bros. posters roughly around this time is missing from the 3 sheet.

    To sum up -

    The printer details on the 3 sheet were not used in that format until around 1944 or 1945. Image above.

    The  WB logo on the 3 sheet is different than on the trade advertisement.

    The missing Warner Bros. Pictures Inc. Present doesn't appear on the 3 sheet.

    In my opinion only I believe the Australian 3 sheet was printed for the circa 1949 Australian re-release based on the printers style of identification used being spot on for the re-release at this time and in this form the style definitely wasn't used in 1938. The second and third facts in my mind only serve to support my opinion.


    I just had a closer look at the Robin Hood 3 sheet and the logo is actually different to the logos in all the other photos that have been posted. The Robin Hood 3 sheet has Warner Brothers Pictures Inc across the shield. The other images that have been posted just have Warner Brothers or Warner Bros. According to your comments "between 1937-1938 the wording Warner Bros. Pictures, Inc. was added across the centre of the WB logo".  What are your thoughts?
    John

  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,006 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    John said:
    Is there a possibility that the three sheet was printed at the same time as the Herald ie late 1938? I have looked through my files for long daybills and the shield did appear to change in either late 1938 or early 1939 so that does tend to support your theory providing that we accept that the three sheet could not have been printed in late 1938 or early 1939 as were the heralds.

    I don't believe the three sheet was printed in 1938 at the same time as the herald for all the reasons previously stated.I have never stated the herald wasn't printed in very late 1938 or early 1939 as 1939 printed on the herald. By the way the  three sheet would have been printed months before before the commencement of the film's run here in Australia whereas the herald would have been printed some months later around the time of the WB logo change. What support do I have for saying this? ''Creating Attendance records
    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,006 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    John said:
    Is there a possibility that the three sheet was printed at the same time as the Herald ie late 1938? I have looked through my files for long daybills and the shield did appear to change in either late 1938 or early 1939 so that does tend to support your theory providing that we accept that the three sheet could not have been printed in late 1938 or early 1939 as were the heralds.

    I don't believe the three sheet was printed in 1938 at the same time as the herald for all the reasons previously stated.I have never stated the herald wasn't printed in very late 1938 or early 1939 as 1939 is printed on the herald. By the way the  three sheet would have been printed months before before the commencement of the film's run here in Australia whereas the herald would have been printed some months later around the time of the WB logo change. What support do I have for saying this? ''Creating Attendance Records Everywhere'' appears on the herald confirming it was printed later on.
    Lawrence
  • JohnJohn Member, Dealer Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
  • BruceBruce Member, Captain Movie Poster Posts: 863 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    This might help!



    We (eMoviePoster.com) hold 3,000 auctions a week, 138,000 a year.
    See all of our current auctions in one gallery here: http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/all.html
  • HONDOHONDO Member, Wizard of Aus Posters Posts: 8,006 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Matt said:

    Kudos for Mark, Lawrence and John for a healthy, vigorous discussion on this topic. A most enjoyable read indeed!!!

    Keep up the good work!  


    Thank you Matt. 57 replies and 346 views in a few days for this thread. I am glad someone else apart from myself is enjoying this as well.
    Lawrence
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