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Hondo's This And That

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  • HONDOHONDO Member Posts: 8,425 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Sven said:
    Hi Honda, I wonder what below is ? A daybill ?  First release ?
    78 x 29cm
    Please do not disclose source of image as per outing rules!!





     The first thing to clear up is that the above  image is advertised as being a daybill poster for a  screening of the  Australian film The Story Of The Kelly Gang ( 1906 ) in Guyra, N.S.W. in 1909. This is untrue as this poster wasn't printed for The Story Of The Kelly Gang, but for a presentation in Guyra with details as appearing below.



    A James Wallace, ( an image pictured above ), is advertised as going to present a series of animated pictures taken and depicting on canvas the picture-story of the Kelly gang. James Wallace ( 1854 - 1910 ) was a school teacher and writer who was a friend of the Kelly gang. A question at be asked is was this James Wallace named on the poster in question the same person from the Kelly gang days, or just someone else who jaut happens to have the same name? If this is the Wallace the Kelly's had an association with it should be noted that if tha date that I found is correct,  then he  died in following year of this presentation. There was a presentation associated with his name in 1910 in Queensland also. Just how many of these presentations, either before the Guyra booking and after and before his death the following year is unknown.  



    1910 screenings in Lithgow on March 12 & 14 of The Kelly Gang! ( circa  1909 ) film version. Note the same taglines on both the newspaper advertisement and the poster.




    1910 Gympie Qld. newspaper announcement of a presentation of The Kelly Gang! narrated by Albert Lucas.This film version  was first released in Australia as early as 1909. A 1908  newspaper story also above about Edward  ''Ned'' Carroll and his involvement in the film.

    I believe is is safe to say that the poster of The Kelly Gang definitely isn't The Story Of The Kelly Gang from 1906 as credited as being, but is The Kelly Gang ( circa 1909 ). It is near impossible to find any mention this film listed anywhere on any sites on Google. It is as it didn't exist. 


    Lawrence
  • SvenSven Member Posts: 2,341 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Great research Lawrence! 
  • MattMatt Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 5,465 admin
    Sven said:
    Great research Lawrence! 
    Concurred!
  • MattMatt Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 5,465 admin
    Sven said:
    Hi Honda, I wonder what below is ? A daybill ?  First release ?
    78 x 29cm
    Please do not disclose source of image as per outing rules!!








    I think we've got to the stage where Leski's auctions are close to EMP and Heritage, where we can out them without violating the outing rules. It seems everyone knows what they have.
     
    Any discussion on their starting prices?
  • JohnJohn Member, Dealer Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter

    I think we've got to the stage where Leski's auctions are close to EMP and Heritage, where we can out them without violating the outing rules. It seems everyone knows what they have.
     
    Any discussion on their starting prices?
    Interesting that the posters seem to be all linen backed with no restoration. When you factor in Buyers Premium of 19.5% Plus GST the starting bids are high.
    John

  • JohnJohn Member, Dealer Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    HONDO said:
    Sven said:
    Hi Honda, I wonder what below is ? A daybill ?  First release ?
    78 x 29cm
    Please do not disclose source of image as per outing rules!!





     The first thing to clear up is that the above  image is advertised as being a daybill poster for a  screening of the  Australian film The Story Of The Kelly Gang ( 1906 ) in Guyra, N.S.W. in 1909. This is untrue as this poster wasn't printed for The Story Of The Kelly Gang, but for a presentation in Guyra with details as appearing below.



    A James Wallace, ( an image pictured above ), is advertised as going to present a series of animated pictures taken and depicting on canvas the picture-story of the Kelly gang. James Wallace ( 1854 - 1910 ) was a school teacher and writer who was a friend of the Kelly gang. A question at be asked is was this James Wallace named on the poster in question the same person from the Kelly gang days, or just someone else who jaut happens to have the same name? If this is the Wallace the Kelly's had an association with it should be noted that if tha date that I found is correct,  then he  died in following year of this presentation. There was a presentation associated with his name in 1910 in Queensland also. Just how many of these presentations, either before the Guyra booking and after and before his death the following year is unknown.  



    1910 screenings in Lithgow on March 12 & 14 of The Kelly Gang! ( circa  1909 ) film version. Note the same taglines on both the newspaper advertisement and the poster.




    1910 Gympie Qld. newspaper announcement of a presentation of The Kelly Gang! narrated by Albert Lucas.This film version  was first released in Australia as early as 1909. A 1908  newspaper story also above about Edward  ''Ned'' Carroll and his involvement in the film.

    I believe is is safe to say that the poster of The Kelly Gang definitely isn't The Story Of The Kelly Gang from 1906 as credited as being, but is The Kelly Gang ( circa 1909 ). It is near impossible to find any mention this film listed anywhere on any sites on Google. It is as it didn't exist. 


    Great research Lawrence. It is described as "a series of animated pictures" and a "picture story". It would be interesting to know exactly what format it actually was.
    John

  • theartofmovieposterstheartofmovieposters Member Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    John said:

    I think we've got to the stage where Leski's auctions are close to EMP and Heritage, where we can out them without violating the outing rules. It seems everyone knows what they have.
     
    Any discussion on their starting prices?
    Interesting that the posters seem to be all linen backed with no restoration. When you factor in Buyers Premium of 19.5% Plus GST the starting bids are high.
    Nah, not high...ridiculous.  I love me a long daybill, but thats nuts for those posters.  Will be interesting to see how they go.
  • JohnJohn Member, Dealer Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    edited June 7
    John said:

    I think we've got to the stage where Leski's auctions are close to EMP and Heritage, where we can out them without violating the outing rules. It seems everyone knows what they have.
     
    Any discussion on their starting prices?
    Interesting that the posters seem to be all linen backed with no restoration. When you factor in Buyers Premium of 19.5% Plus GST the starting bids are high.
    Nah, not high...ridiculous.  I love me a long daybill, but thats nuts for those posters.  Will be interesting to see how they 
    Yes. The consignor is probably factoring in the cost of linen backing but I would guess that most lots will be passed in.
    John

  • HONDOHONDO Member Posts: 8,425 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    John said:
    Great research Lawrence. It is described as "a series of animated pictures" and a "picture story". It would be interesting to know exactly what format it actually was.

    Good question John. I have been pondering this for sometime now.

    A few things that are interesting to me.

    1 ) On the poster '' James Wallace presents by means of picture ...... then at the bottom of the poster ''and all the latest Moving pictures''.

    2 ) Newspaper wording - ''Mr. James Wallace will present a Picture story..... then later on ''ever thrown on canvas''.

    3)  Another newspaper quote ''In Picture story - this series of animated pictures..."'

    4)  Yet another Newspaper mention. "'The story will be narrated by the popular elocutionist Mr. Albrert Lucas. In addition to the  Kelly Gang Pictures....'' 

    Live in theatre narration used instead of on screen titles is interesting, and I wonder about the ''ever thrown on canvas'' wording.



    Another Newspaper advertisement for it's first Sydney engagements in 1910.
    Lawrence
  • JohnJohn Member, Dealer Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    It sounds like it could have been some sort of collage of photos rather than an actual film. Note the comment "For the first time in Sydney a New and Up to date version (especially taken during the past month). 
    John

  • HONDOHONDO Member Posts: 8,425 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    John said:
    It sounds like it could have been some sort of collage of photos rather than an actual film. Note the comment "For the first time in Sydney a New and Up to date version (especially taken during the past month). 
    Exactly my thinking. No proof of course but it certainly sounds that it could have been the case. It makes sense then why a  narrator was required and why no record can be located on IMDB and other reference sites or under Ned Kelly films listings of a circa 1909 film called The Kelly Gang. 

    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member Posts: 8,425 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector


    Lithgow 1910. Notice the words '' exhibition ... of the pictures of the Kelly Gang''. 



    Adelaide 1910. Note with this screening ''It is a thrilling series of views''.


    I believe now that we can all agree that the poster isn't from ''The Story of The Kelly Gang ( 1906 ).        

    One last point is that there hasn't been in all the material that I have reseached any actors mentioned by name playing characters featured in the story.

    As mentioned above The Kelly Gang, starting in 1909, is apparently a series of photos only on film. The Kelly Gang certainly appears to have been a film consisting of filmed scenes and still photographs presented on screen with narration provided at each presentation.


    Lawrence
  • collectaholliccollectahollic Member Posts: 890 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    edited June 8

    Nah, not high...ridiculous.  I love me a long daybill, but thats nuts for those posters.  Will be interesting to see how they go.
    Slight understatement Ves, the partial linenbacking isn't the only factor, it almost looks like they've been backed by an amature who drew the line at resto, so makes you think what materials/adhesive he/she used. "DANGER WIL ROBINSON" springs to mind!! 
  • RickRick Member Posts: 836 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    the linenbacking on other old posters looks like it wasn't worth the effort
  • BruceBruce Member, Captain Movie Poster Posts: 959 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    Rick said:
    the linenbacking on other old posters looks like it wasn't worth the effort
    Bad linenbacking DECREASES the value of any poster
    We (eMoviePoster.com) hold 3,000 auctions a week, 138,000 a year.
    See all of our current auctions in one gallery here: http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/all.html
  • HONDOHONDO Member Posts: 8,425 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector


    HONDO said:
    Sven said:
    Hi Honda, I wonder what below is ? A daybill ?  First release ?
    78 x 29cm
    Please do not disclose source of image as per outing rules!!



     The first thing to clear up is that the above  image is advertised as being a daybill poster for a  screening of the  Australian film The Story Of The Kelly Gang ( 1906 ) in Guyra, N.S.W. in 1909. This is untrue as this poster wasn't printed for The Story Of The Kelly Gang, but for a presentation in Guyra with details as appearing below.







    The Story Of The Kelly Gang original 1906 daybill, the 1910 re-release daybill when the film had some additional footage added and the poster used in 1909. Most likely this style of poster could have been printed years earlier. 

    Due to more evidence I have amended my statement that the last poster wasn't printed for The Story of The Kelly Gang,  and was a different film all together. 

    Everything I have produced here on this thread about the presentation of the film is correct, except in saying the duotone poster wasn't for The Story Of The Kelly Gang, but a different film altogether.  The major problem in me stating this, is that apart from the two colour daybills, along with the title this film is known as, being The Story Of The Kelly Gang, all the numerous newspaper advertising that used Kelly Gang of The Kelly Gang only with The Story Of wording not used in the advertising at all. One exception just located is from 1906 with The Story Of ( in small print ) ''The Kelly Gang ".                                                                                                                                                       



    ---------------------------------------------------------------




    A 1910 advertisement advertising the film's re-release solely as The Kelly Gang and mentioniing Messrs. Johnson & Gibson, Melbourne as seen on the 1910 daybill.

    It certainly points to the duotone poster being printed for The Story Of The Kelly Gang with the misleading Kelly Gang title, which was also used in newspaper advertising The usage of the words such as views and pictures, used in the early days of film, tend to mislead one also.    

    Finally no official record can be found of there being another Ned Kelly film from around this period of time in question. So with all information now presented do we all agree that the duotone poster image under scrutiny was printed for The Story Of The Kelly Gang then?

    I have located some information and images on other early Ned Kelly films also. Please inform me here if anyone would like to see it? 

    Lawrence
  • theartofmovieposterstheartofmovieposters Member Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    I need to go back and re-read all the research presented, but I still have my doubts its for the film
  • HONDOHONDO Member Posts: 8,425 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
       




     ( This one dubbed ).

    A few people have shown some interest in Blake Films so here is a brief history about them. They were based in Sydney, N.S.W.

    Taking off in the 1950's in Capitol cities in Australia were the numerous screenings of foreign language films with English subtitles, originating from many small independent distributors such as Natan Scheinwald, Robert Kapferer, F.D.B., Savoy and New Dawn Films and a few others, including Blake Films. These films had limited theatrical bookings in capitol cities and few elsewhere in the country. Sid Blake the man behind Blake Films was the only distributor to not stay mainly with importing continental films with original language and English subtitles in the 1950's and into the 1960's. Blake Films soon screened English dubbed versions of some of their imports, as well as the subtitled ones. 

    Blake Films first theatrical film release in Sydney appears to have been in late 1954 with a French film called Companions Of The Night. From the Australian trade magazine yearbook of The Film Weekly Motion pictures Directory 1956-67, mentioned under a section titled Distributor Companies, the following appeared. ‘’ Blake Films Managing director Sidney John Blake. Importers and distributors of 16mm and 35mm continental films.’’ Seven  examples  above of their  daybill artwork created for some of their earlier releases in the 1950's and 1960's for various continental films that they released. 

    In the 1960’s Blake diversified and released U.S. and some foreign English dubbed  films for a period of time from A.I.P. and Allied Artists, along with some other independent U.S. and British film releases and a few revivals of old Hollywood classics, whilst continuing to distribute some foreign language films with subtitles, along with dubbed versions. Into the 1970’s, after the R certificate was introduced in November 1971, Blake films tended mainly to specialize in importing sexploitation films. As with other independent film distributors such as Natan Scheinwald and Regent Films, Blake Films  continued to survive by mainly importing sexploitation films into Australia, which were profit making films during that period of time. 

    In circa 1970 Blake Films interstate branch offices were listed as being Roadshow Distributors at Richmond North Vic. and at Fortitude Valley, Qld.

    The last film that I have been able to locate that was released theatrically in Australia by Blake Films was I Spit On Your Grave in 1984, but there may have been later released titles. In 1983 Roadshow,  Blake films and a private investor Antony Veccola  joined forces to form the home video cmpany Palace Home Video which had many different genre labels. Blake Films had their product released on at least the Palace Vibrant Video label in the 1980’s, along with the Palace Explosive label, where I found a mention that ‘’Blake Films were one of the distributors behind the label’’. There was also  another mention that Blake Films in 1984 had a partnership with Roadshow in the Palace Explosive label. 

    To reinforce the connection Blake Films had with Roadshow, below are two daybills of Belle de Jour ( 1967 ). The circa 1969 Australian first release daybill from Blake Films, and what I believe is a second printing in either 1970 or 1971, this time with ''A Blake-Roadshow release'' printed on it.


    To sum things up then. Blake Films commenced distributing theatrical films in Australia in 1954 and they released theatrical films at least into the 1980’s, with 1984 confirmed, along with releases on Video in the late 1980’s through Palace Home Video. They had a long association with Roadshow in the 1970's and the 1980's. I am unaware if Blake Films still operated in the 1990's or not, as information is hard to locate. If anyone knows any information on any later theatrical or video releases please let us know?

    Lawrence
  • JohnJohn Member, Dealer Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Excellent information Lawrence. I have many Blake Films Sexploitation posters and many more images of posters that I have sold over the years. They sometimes printed posters in different colours for the same film and just used the images from US or European stills or posters and added strategically placed garments to keep the censor happy.
    John

  • theartofmovieposterstheartofmovieposters Member Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    Well no surprise that all the long daybills that were way overpriced passed in.

    Anyone have any luck on Casablanca?
  • HONDOHONDO Member Posts: 8,425 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    HONDO said:

     




      HacketOffset Printing Co. & Offset Printing Co.Pry.Ltd.

    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member Posts: 8,425 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector


    Lolita ( 1962 ). Original Australian daybill and the same version trimmed for New Zealand usage.The book is banned! line trimmed off the poster, as the book was available to purchase in New Zealand.
    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member Posts: 8,425 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
     ( X marks the spot ).

    A follow up here to my Blake Films thread with a Liane film sequel, which was also released by Blake Films. This The Nature Girl and the Trader ( 1957 ) image has recently surfaced so I thought I would share with anyone viewing this thread. The original The Jungle Goddess daybill certainly is the most appealing I feel.


    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member Posts: 8,425 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    edited July 3
                                                                                                                                                           

    Carry On Doctor ( 1967 ).  Three versions of original daybills printed for the first release.  They are prime examples of Australian / New Zealand usage.

    Daybill 1. This version printed for Australian release with the Australian distributor BEF and the Australian censorship rating printed on the poster.

    Daybill 2. This version printed for New Zealand release. Notice that the Australian distriburor BEF's credit wasn't printed  on this poster, along with the Australian Not suitable for children  classification. The New Zealand film distributor was Rank Film Distributors Of New Zealand, so hence the BEF credit being left off, and just leaving the Rank logo. The N.Z. Censorship rating stamp attached.
     
    Daybill 3. This poster image proves conclusively that both the printed for New Zealand version and this trimmed Australian version with the N.Z. censorship stamp appearing on it were used in New Zealand, Although the distributor was Rank the ''A BEF release'' credit was left on the poster.

    Post edited by HONDO on
    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member Posts: 8,425 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    edited July 5
       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

    The Legend Of Lobo ( 1962 ). Australian 1965 first release MGM daybill and the circa 1973 re-release daybill, most likely from BEF.

     It isn't very often a re-release daybill comes out on top over an original daybill design, but I do believe it does so here.                                                                                
    Lawrence
  • theartofmovieposterstheartofmovieposters Member Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    I dunno, I am kinda partial to the red.  The Yellow is overused on daybills.  Drives me nuts!
  • HONDOHONDO Member Posts: 8,425 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    edited July 7
         
            
    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member Posts: 8,425 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    I dunno, I am kinda partial to the red.  The Yellow is overused on daybills.  Drives me nuts!
    The original red version is missing the great taglines ''THE HUNTER... THE HUNTED!  in one lifetime he was both'' though. Actually in this case the yellow on the RR I don't mind.
    Lawrence
  • HONDOHONDO Member Posts: 8,425 ✭✭✭✭✭ Elite Collector
    HONDO said:


    A question to be asked regarding The Endless Summer. Was there any other form of Australian film posters, whether it be a daybill, one sheet or any other size of film poster  in circulation prior the the above daybill ? 

    Sven said:
    Interested to know Hondo. Dont think ive seen any other paper (bar the duo tone)

    A handbill maybe?

    HONDO said:
    A handbill maybe?
    Sorry I possibly didn't explain myself property. I wasn't referring to the Columbia Pictures 1967 Australian release, but to any Australian posters that may have been printed before Columbia Pictures acquired the screening rights to the film.

    The 1967 release daybill poster. I am inquiring abour pre Columbia Pictures, when Bruce Brown controlled the film rights.

                                                                                                                                                                                         The Endless Summer was released as early as 1965 in Australia and New Zealand. In New Zealand it was initially imported there by NZFS ( N Z Film Society ) on 16mm,The film had some limited Australian screenings in at least Canberra, A.C.T, in October 1965, and although unconfirmed it was most likely the same 16mm format when screened in Australia in 1965.Again in July 1966 the film had more film screenings in Canberra. The Australian distributor is unknown.

    Columbia Pictures acquired the screening rights from Bruce Brown in 1966 and the originally shot in 16mm film was blown up to 35mm. The 35mm Columbia Pictures version was released in Sydney September 1, 1967.



    My original query was to try to find out if there was a daybill or any other form of Australian poster size printed for the original 16mm 1965 screenings, which preceeded the 1967 35mm Columbia Pictures Australian release.

    I have located the following Australain printed stock poster printed for the New Zealand distributor Internationl Film Distributors. Just where this daybill fits in is unknown. I am thinking it was printed for 16mm screenigs pre 1967, and screened between the NZFS screenings in 1965, and the Columbia Pictures release on 35mm in 1967. New Zealand censorship records only show the  NZFS 16mm and the Columbia 35mm versions being passed for exhibition.

     ( Trade Me )
    Lawrence
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