I'm curious for reasons outside of this current discussion to see an image of the Dumbo daybill that David mentioned.Do you mind David in posting an image for me to have a look at?
In answer to Charlie question --- The U.S.film logos never had 4 stars. The 4 stars appeared only on Australian print material as far as I know starting around 1937 and stopped being used on one sheets only by 1948.Beyond this information as Schultz would say'' I know nothing''.
I found a Swedish The Story Of Vernon And Irene Castle poster with 6 stars also .So far this tells us 6 stars were being used on Czech and Swedish posters very late 1930's and into the early 1940's.
You can search back through the week's auctions in HA & EMP to see what other Aust one sheets were sold in the same lot. May give a clue to date seeing how you're talking about issues ten years apart.
I have to say that I think there is no evidence to prove that the Wonder Man one sheet in question is a reissue. The main argument seems to be the lack of a four star logo.
However, I have gone through a pile of RKO posters and the logo, particularly on daybills, seems to be quite random. I have found early 40s daybills with 4 stars and others without (eg The Navy Steps Out). There also many examples of slightly different designs of logo.
When you also consider that the logos often vary from the one sheet to the daybill to print advertising, it is clear that there was no "official" logo. If there was an official logo, it would have been used on all posters and advertising material.
If someone can produce a first release Australian RKO one sheet from the mid 1940's to 1948 without the 4 stars on it or a post 1949 RKO poster with the 4 stars
It's not an easy search, but here is a 1948, without stars. That said, I'd probably doubt the date on this given another is also dated on the same database as a 1947.
What I noticed is how few RKO AU1SH exist from the 40s - given they probably released about 400 films in that decade - if there is anomalies in the logo on the 1SH to the Daybill (which there appear to be) then we may never have a decent size sample to categorically say one way or another.
The Best Years Of Our Lives image is a 1950's re-release one sheet. Still waiting for a first release Australian one sheet image for a RKO film released in the 1940's up to 1948.
When I have more time I will post some further information on RKO daybills 1940 to 1942.I am absolutely convinced the Australian RKO one sheet question on logos is separate from the daybill logo printings.
I firmly believe my information is correct on the RKO 4 Star logos on one sheets so please prove me wrong by producing an image on a 1940's pre 1949 poster first release without the 4 stars..
When I have more time I will post some further information on RKO daybills 1940 to 1942.I am absolutely convinced the Australian RKO one sheet question on logos is separate from the daybill logo printings.
I firmly believe my information is correct on the RKO 4 Star logos on one sheets so please prove me wrong by producing an image on a 1940's pre 1949 poster first release without the 4 stars..
Hondo.
Well, actually I think you need to prove that you are correct and I don't think you have quite done that as yet! I think it is still a theory rather than fact at the moment.
Here are a few questions that need to be answered ....
Why would the one sheets have a four star logo while daybills for the same films from the era often have a different logo - no stars?
Is it possible that the poster artist just copied the logo from a template that had been used in the past?
What are the logos on the few hundred one sheets that are unaccounted for? We only have a very small sample at the moment and we would need to see the other logos before making a judgement.
Why do some daybills from the era have a four star logo and others just the standard logo?
Why would they stop using the four star logo on one sheets in 1948? What is the significance of that year?
One more possible scenario about the Wonder Man one sheet. Hondo, do you think it might be possible that they could have stopped printing or recalled the one sheet when it was realised that the distribution details had been left off? Is it also possible that the poster might have been re done with the correct details but slightly different logo? That would make both original.
Possible but in my thinking no. My brain is working in overdrive at the moment thinking about Wonder Man and to think I wasn't a Danny Kaye fan except for the classic The Court Jester that has some wonderful lines and amusing scenes and I must mention the wonderful Angela Lansbury was a bonus.
I retract saying that the The Best Years Of Our Lives poster is a re-release. I should have said possibly a re-release.The film was a 1946 U.S.release and a 1948 Australian release. The lack of credits on the poster and the lack of the 4 star logo led me to think it was a re-release which it still possible. The film was re-released in the U.S. in 1954 and as the film may have been re-released in Australia in 1955 and no Sydney cinema advertisements are available on Trove after 1954 to confirm this. If it is a re-release this explains the absence of the 4 stars but if it is original my explanation of being without stars is 1948 / 1949 was the change over period from 4 stars to no stars.
Bruce can breath easier for the time being as it will remain listed as original until another different style one sheet or any other information is produced to prove otherwise. I haven't contacted Bruce about this one sheet being other than original at any time.
Surprisingly it didn't take long for me to find some information as to why I believe the Australian one sheet is a re-release.
If one looks at the U.S.1954 re-release one sheet Style A poster it has " The Most Honored Picture Of Our Time'' on it. Neither of the original U.S. 1946 one sheets Style A & B have this information on them. What does the Australian one sheet credited as being original release have printed on it? I'm restraining myself not to type something else but commonsense prevails, so my answer is " The Most Honoured Picture Of Our Time''. Sure looks like the Australian one sheet is a re-release poster from I guess possibly 1955 and this also would explain the lack of the 4 stars. Not 100% proof of course but it looks pretty convincing to me.
The Best Years Of Our Lives commenced screening at the Century theatre in Sydney late 1947 with advertising stating '' This picture will not be shown in any other theatre in N.S.W. prior to 1948.Some newspaper advertisements in 1948 had printed on them '' The Most Important Picture In History ''. This now casts a little doubt around the question being discussed as to is the one sheet poster original, a re-release in the 1950's or perhaps a second printing around 1949? As a winner of countless awards and a big hit at the box office that attracted countless bookings did it require the printing of a a swiftly designed poster which left out some out some of the credits for the sake of expediency.? The film ran a full week in the N.S.W. country town of Goulburn.
If the question is asked by people why did RKO do certain things with the printing styles of their logos in Australia I say they were experimental in their approach. After all they produced daybills with full bleed to three sides to the borders. Who else did this?
The similarity between the tag lines of the two Best Years of Our Lives one sheets is a good argument for saying that the Australian one sheet might also be a 1954 release .....
Comments
I'm curious for reasons outside of this current discussion to see an image of the Dumbo daybill that David mentioned.Do you mind David in posting an image for me to have a look at?
Hondo
In answer to Charlie question --- The U.S.film logos never had 4 stars. The 4 stars appeared only on Australian print material as far as I know starting around 1937 and stopped being used on one sheets only by 1948.Beyond this information as Schultz would say'' I know nothing''.
Hondo
From no stars to 4 stars to 6 stars. We certainly have opened up Pandora's box.
Hondo
Does anyone else have any international film posters of RKO films with any number of stars appearing on them ? Would be fascinating if any surface.
Hondo
I found a Swedish The Story Of Vernon And Irene Castle poster with 6 stars also .So far this tells us 6 stars were being used on Czech and Swedish posters very late 1930's and into the early 1940's.
Keep them coming.
Hondo.
Found 6 stars on a Swedish 1940 Kitty Foyle poster. I see a direction we are heading in here.
Hondo
Long Daybill from 1941 - no stars on the logo ......
I have to say that I think there is no evidence to prove that the Wonder Man one sheet in question is a reissue. The main argument seems to be the lack of a four star logo.
However, I have gone through a pile of RKO posters and the logo, particularly on daybills, seems to be quite random. I have found early 40s daybills with 4 stars and others without (eg The Navy Steps Out). There also many examples of slightly different designs of logo.
When you also consider that the logos often vary from the one sheet to the daybill to print advertising, it is clear that there was no "official" logo. If there was an official logo, it would have been used on all posters and advertising material.
It's not an easy search, but here is a 1948, without stars. That said, I'd probably doubt the date on this given another is also dated on the same database as a 1947.
The Best Years Of Our Lives image is a 1950's re-release one sheet. Still waiting for a first release Australian one sheet image for a RKO film released in the 1940's up to 1948.
When I have more time I will post some further information on RKO daybills 1940 to 1942.I am absolutely convinced the Australian RKO one sheet question on logos is separate from the daybill logo printings.
I firmly believe my information is correct on the RKO 4 Star logos on one sheets so please prove me wrong by producing an image on a 1940's pre 1949 poster first release without the 4 stars..
Hondo.
Well, actually I think you need to prove that you are correct and I don't think you have quite done that as yet! I think it is still a theory rather than fact at the moment.
Here are a few questions that need to be answered ....
Why would the one sheets have a four star logo while daybills for the same films from the era often have a different logo - no stars?
Is it possible that the poster artist just copied the logo from a template that had been used in the past?
What are the logos on the few hundred one sheets that are unaccounted for? We only have a very small sample at the moment and we would need to see the other logos before making a judgement.
Why do some daybills from the era have a four star logo and others just the standard logo?
Why would they stop using the four star logo on one sheets in 1948? What is the significance of that year?
All reasonable questions John which I will address soon plus more. To be continued.
Hondo
Possible but in my thinking no. My brain is working in overdrive at the moment thinking about Wonder Man and to think I wasn't a Danny Kaye fan except for the classic The Court Jester that has some wonderful lines and amusing scenes and I must mention the wonderful Angela Lansbury was a bonus.
Hondo
Surprisingly it didn't take long for me to find some information as to why I believe the Australian one sheet is a re-release.
If one looks at the U.S.1954 re-release one sheet Style A poster it has " The Most Honored Picture Of Our Time'' on it. Neither of the original U.S. 1946 one sheets Style A & B have this information on them. What does the Australian one sheet credited as being original release have printed on it? I'm restraining myself not to type something else but commonsense prevails, so my answer is " The Most Honoured Picture Of Our Time''. Sure looks like the Australian one sheet is a re-release poster from I guess possibly 1955 and this also would explain the lack of the 4 stars. Not 100% proof of course but it looks pretty convincing to me.
Hondo.
The Best Years Of Our Lives commenced screening at the Century theatre in Sydney late 1947 with advertising stating '' This picture will not be shown in any other theatre in N.S.W. prior to 1948.Some newspaper advertisements in 1948 had printed on them '' The Most Important Picture In History ''. This now casts a little doubt around the question being discussed as to is the one sheet poster original, a re-release in the 1950's or perhaps a second printing around 1949? As a winner of countless awards and a big hit at the box office that attracted countless bookings did it require the printing of a a swiftly designed poster which left out some out some of the credits for the sake of expediency.? The film ran a full week in the N.S.W. country town of Goulburn.
The jury is still out.
Hondo
If the question is asked by people why did RKO do certain things with the printing styles of their logos in Australia I say they were experimental in their approach. After all they produced daybills with full bleed to three sides to the borders. Who else did this?
Hondo
The similarity between the tag lines of the two Best Years of Our Lives one sheets is a good argument for saying that the Australian one sheet might also be a 1954 release .....
Any Danny Kaye fans who haven't noticed my posting on Up In Arms you may be interested in having a look.
Hondo