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The Eisenhower Linenbacking Experience...

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  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,083 admin
    Sven said:
    Only minor flaws.mate...but overall result fantastic! Hey 're using stronger bleach to remove stain next time I wonder if better to airbrush?..thinking of darios comment of cooking a poster. Loving the delicates ...keep it coming Mark! :)
    You can always spot bleach with a stronger solution using an eye dropper. Or sometimes using a different bleaching agent can unlock the stain (CT/hydrogen p). Those look iron based and are tough. One trick is also tapping the area to push the chemical in and pull it out... Then there is always good old time. IMO nothing should "cook" if you remove all the chlorine based elements with a good acid wash... Then of course deacidification and removal of the inert salts with a deionized wash.
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
    www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,083 admin
    I have always wanted to set up a vacuum table for spots like that... Never enough time.
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
    www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook
  • SvenSven Member Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    edited April 2015
    Charlie said:
    Sven said:
    Only minor flaws.mate...but overall result fantastic! Hey 're using stronger bleach to remove stain next time I wonder if better to airbrush?..thinking of darios comment of cooking a poster. Loving the delicates ...keep it coming Mark! :)
    You can always spot bleach with a stronger solution using an eye dropper. Or sometimes using a different bleaching agent can unlock the stain (CT/hydrogen p). Those look iron based and are tough. One trick is also tapping the area to push the chemical in and pull it out... Then there is always good old time. IMO nothing should "cook" if you remove all the chlorine based elements with a good acid wash... Then of course deacidification and removal of the inert salts with a deionized wash.

    Ok thanks Charlie. I find this really interesting and apologies for the next round of questions which are probably stooopid...

    So generally speaking, for a light bleach, you would immerse the entire poster in the solution i.e. a bleach bath? And then it's a separate bath to deacidfy? Or it's one bath for the poster with the chemicals mixed to perform a light bleach AND deacidfy?

    If one were to back a poster onto linen without any bath, then technically that would mean the poster is not deacidfied  and not preserved ? Unless the wheat starch is used to deacidfy the poster?

    BTW I've read lots of content on restoration sites and it's never clicked about what actually happens to my poster, and why sometimes the "bath/wash" is a standalone service and not just included when you linen back a poster...HENCE THUMBS UP TO YOUR NEW WEBSITE :) :)

  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    edited April 2015
    Thanks for all the nice comments guys! My wife was telling me I was being too hard on myself, but I guess I was just critical that at the very end, I fumbled the ball!  :D
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    Sven said:
    Only minor flaws.mate...but overall result fantastic! Hey 're using stronger bleach to remove stain next time I wonder if better to airbrush?..thinking of darios comment of cooking a poster. Loving the delicates ...keep it coming Mark! :)
    Yeah, that was in my head as I was preparing to spray the poster with bleach. I had to reduce the strength of the bleach just prior to the spray. It completely burned the tester strip clean! I didn't want to go to strong with bleach the first time just to be safe. Any yes, have read where Dario has suggested that sometimes, stains esp from tape just won't come off, and to spray them out is the only way. But I haven't invested in any restoration materials yet; Albrect Durer watercolor pencils first, then paints, then airbrushing. I see the results of Charlie and Dario and think, can I handle and airbrush? It does not seem easy. But i'll get there as my craft progresses. 
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,083 admin
    What tester strip are you referring to?
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
    www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    Sven said:
    Quick question is the wash a one or two step process.?....ie first wash to deacidfy and second wash to bleach?
    Good question. I had no idea it would take me so long just to wash the paper! Over 2 hours! I'd read Charlie's posts and wondered what he was doing. After piecing it all together, reading, Charlie, Fernando emails, it came out to 13 total wash steps (about 1/2 of those are just rinsing the paper after a chemical application). The deacification bath comes before the bleach application to soak the fibers with an alkaline/buffer before bleach and to remove acids from the paper fibers (if my language/terminology is wrong please correct me Charlie). I'm so new to the process; am going to PM Charlie my was steps to get some confirmation of what I did. After the bleach, the paper then needs an acidic wash to remove the "chlorine based elements" as Charlie said. 
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    Charlie said:
    Sven said:
    Only minor flaws.mate...but overall result fantastic! Hey 're using stronger bleach to remove stain next time I wonder if better to airbrush?..thinking of darios comment of cooking a poster. Loving the delicates ...keep it coming Mark! :)
    You can always spot bleach with a stronger solution using an eye dropper. Or sometimes using a different bleaching agent can unlock the stain (CT/hydrogen p). Those look iron based and are tough. One trick is also tapping the area to push the chemical in and pull it out... Then there is always good old time. IMO nothing should "cook" if you remove all the chlorine based elements with a good acid wash... Then of course deacidification and removal of the inert salts with a deionized wash.
    Yeah, I sprayed the spots pretty hard, but didn't think to tap on the paper. Had thought of using a q-tip or other applicator with a stronger bleach but fear "overwhiting" the paper in that area. But certainly worth a try. As for CT or Hydrogen P, would need to read up on use of those. Great stuff!
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    edited April 2015
    Mirosae said:
    Matt said:
    Poor Mark doesn't know what he's in for.... ;))
    he is not complaining. ..yet 8-X
    Oh i'd love to work on other's paper... :)>-...but need to get my confidence up before that occurs! I'm hoping by the fall I can be working on some of my better posters after I see more of my lesser valued paper get support.   ;)
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    Charlie said:
    What tester strip are you referring to?

    I bought from Talas the pH Colorphast tester strips. My chem mixes were pretty close to the literature for the Cal Hydrox (but was finally around 12.5, too high I'm guessing, I diluted with quite a bit of water).

    The Cal Hypo bleach was way strong (It just cleaned off the entire test strip colors!) from the first pH test so I had to really dilute that, and Cal Carb spray at the end was spot on.

    Getting the chem mixtures/pH levels is going to take some time, but feel I can get it right.

  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,083 admin
    Interesting because Calcium Hyp should be a base.....
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
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  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,083 admin
    Maybe it just oxidized the test strip colors.  lol
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
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  • SvenSven Member Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Thanks for all the nice comments guys! My wife was telling me I was being too hard on myself, but I guess I was just critical that at the very end, I fumbled the ball!  :D
    Dedicated with passion to improve and get it right... >:D<
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    Up next for washing and backing...Call Northside 777-R55. Bought it about 15 years ago for i think $50. Last I checked it clocked in at $5 give it take a few cents... :D

    photo 73611EE5-DE45-43CE-8B94-F022DA3A3E4F_zpsgo5s2n5o.jpg photo E03AA0E7-1895-4E5A-B645-621519604584_zpserjc0en1.jpg Tape-first time to experiment removal photo 2CCB30D5-74C2-493C-AC97-08BCA592A6CD_zpsmtacx4vf.jpg More tape... photo FC923CA5-C88B-40E5-B420-74C181329325_zpslluasfpe.jpg
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    A little Bestine... photo 263D8CA5-108E-492C-A7B1-DA5276C7DF14_zpsqw22dgqk.jpg photo DE74877C-ED11-4D4E-B7D0-742C8DD1F74B_zpstruutja4.jpg About 45 mins later... photo 31F88B64-8BD2-4632-9635-0A76D97B802D_zpsmnms1q2k.jpg Now the removal of tape-it seemed to be a more modern scotch type-was a learning experience. Patience, patience and more patience... #:-S
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    Wasn't perfect removal, I took some small bits in the process, but overall for first time, a success! photo 765CCEDE-E4E4-4DFD-8FC8-8C9A4B0FD222_zpstsshanqa.jpg
  • SvenSven Member Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Take care of our boy Jimmy! Best of luck and keep us posted! That scotch tape looked tricky to remove...flaked a fair bit?
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    Exactly Sven! I was a bit stingy on the use of the Bestine and your right, it flaked on me quite a bit. I was trying to desperately scrape an edge so I could get a good grip & pull off a nice long strip! No dice. I started using some tweezers, but all that did was tear off small pieces so I went with greater saturation & slow, gentle scraping...hope to get it wet tomorrow & backed!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Yep greater saturation along with patience is the key!
    Chris
  • DavidDavid Administrator Posts: 10,111 admin
    Good effort. 

    Might wanna go with a better knife next time...

    image
    David
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    CSM said:
    Yep greater saturation along with patience is the key!

    Yeah, I found myself tapping the areas of tape to make sure the Bestine seeped under all parts of the tape-wasn't always able to get this done-had to work the edges quite a bit!
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    edited April 2015
    David said:
    Good effort. 

    Might wanna go with a better knife next time...

    image

    Hahaha...thx David...you Aussies, always thinkin bigger is better! Maybe I'll use a butter knife next time. :D
  • MirosaeMirosae Member Posts: 850 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    That was a clean job! I did that once. I was so nervous that frankly haven't tried it again since. Great job and poster >:D<
    Rosa -
    Love some paper
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,083 admin
    edited April 2015
    David said:
    Good effort. 

    Might wanna go with a better knife next time...

    image

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/281137733317
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
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  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin

    Thanks Rosa!...found out real quick that I didn't have enough light to see the fine pieces of tape so had to bring in a brighter lamp in the room and my iphone light...saturation also showed where the tape was still present.

     

    ----Great price on those tools Charlie! That's what one piece costs from Talas! Thanks for the lead.

    :)>-
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin

    Will say i'm a bit concerned with tape residue/glue left on the poster after removal; and staining after linenbacking and drying...the paper was so brittle didn't want to scrape too hard...Backing and drying will tell...

    :-?
  • MirosaeMirosae Member Posts: 850 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    Does the paper feel ok? I think I damaged my poster when I did mine. Took the tape out eventually but the paper was very wrinkly afterwards. .. or maybe that's normal...dunno...
    Rosa -
    Love some paper
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,083 admin
    edited April 2015
    Wimps! Break out the sandpaper and get busy...
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
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  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin

    Wimps?...I broke out the sandpaper and made a small patch of light to the front! (I figured it was a rookie mistake, but still didn't want to post the damage)... I was gently sanding with 300 grit the title/year/nss number on the backside and guess I sanded to much!

    :(( ....I think I need a higher count and sand more "gently"...will keep trying! ;)
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    Mirosae said:
    Does the paper feel ok? I think I damaged my poster when I did mine. Took the tape out eventually but the paper was very wrinkly afterwards. .. or maybe that's normal...dunno...

    Paper feels a little rough, maybe wrinkly only because it's been in the same position for the last 50 years or so...it will likely become smooth once the wash hits it...will photograph and let you know.
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