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The Eisenhower Linenbacking Experience...

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  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    Previous post images of tape removal...photobucket is driving me!... ~X( 45 mins later... photo 31F88B64-8BD2-4632-9635-0A76D97B802D_zpsmnms1q2k.jpg
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,083 admin

    Wimps?...I broke out the sandpaper and made a small patch of light to the front! (I figured it was a rookie mistake, but still didn't want to post the damage)... I was gently sanding with 300 grit the title/year/nss number on the backside and guess I sanded to much!

    :(( ....I think I need a higher count and sand more "gently"...will keep trying! ;)
    600 or higher...
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
    www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,083 admin
    No sanding for that... Take a razor and scrape it off. Doesn't have to be completely removed just enough so it can't be read from the front...
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
    www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    600?...oh...back to Lowes...I'll get a razor as well & scrape lightly. Question: if you can't see it from the front to begin with, will it show after backing?
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    Well, Northside 777 is backed. It was my first 1 Sht and was another learning experience. Deacidification showed great results as did bleaching!...laying down of Masa paper is the most challenging part so far. The wash got exciting in seconds as I had some major separation in one of the fold lines! Pictures shortly...
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,083 admin
    600?...oh...back to Lowes...I'll get a razor as well & scrape lightly. Question: if you can't see it from the front to begin with, will it show after backing?
    May have to go to a wood working store, not sure if Lowes carries it.
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
    www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook
  • racer59racer59 Member Posts: 89 ✭✭ One-Sheeter
    edited April 2015

    .. I was gently sanding with 300 grit the title/year/nss number on the backside and guess I sanded to much!


    Hi Mark,

    Are you bleaching both sides of the poster? The NSS stamps should come off cleanly during bleaching. I've never needed to sand those. They are pretty easy to remove actually.

    Only thing I havent been able to remove from the back with a bleaching has been pen, marker and I had some pastel writing once. I did find that Bestine will remove them but you have to be very carful since your basically sanding the paper with the solution. If you remove too much of the fibers you will see a noticeable difference in that part of the poster versus the rest. 

    Also, its much easier to remove tape when your washing the poster. Right after the first soak. I only used Bestine to remove tape on posters that I am not backing. To make you job easier you should buy some palette knives at your local art supply store. The palette knives will be your best friend during the wash for everything from tape removal to separating the wet mylar sheets. 
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,083 admin
    Interesting, I found it a pain to attempt to remove tape after the poster is wet... I always get everything off before wetting. Else, if it requires any physical manipulation you can tear the wet paper...
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
    www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    racer59 said:

    .. I was gently sanding with 300 grit the title/year/nss number on the backside and guess I sanded to much!


    Hi Mark,

    Are you bleaching both sides of the poster? The NSS stamps should come off cleanly during bleaching. I've never needed to sand those. They are pretty easy to remove actually.

    Only thing I havent been able to remove from the back with a bleaching has been pen, marker and I had some pastel writing once. I did find that Bestine will remove them but you have to be very carful since your basically sanding the paper with the solution. If you remove too much of the fibers you will see a noticeable difference in that part of the poster versus the rest. 

    Also, its much easier to remove tape when your washing the poster. Right after the first soak. I only used Bestine to remove tape on posters that I am not backing. To make you job easier you should buy some palette knives at your local art supply store. The palette knives will be your best friend during the wash for everything from tape removal to separating the wet mylar sheets. 
    Yes, am bleaching both sides of the poster. I wasn't sure if the bleach would do the trick. I sanded too "firm" with 300 grit and I went right through in a small place. ...I did sand off a bit of pen on the backside, or minimized it's image quite a bit. Haven't noticed the fiber difference, but really haven't look to much during washing or after. The paper itself is quite "tender" while washing though...I'll have to pick up some palatte knives to try to remove some of the tape during washing, provided the paper is strong enough...surprised how soft the paper gets after 2+ hours of washing...and yeah, the mylar sheets can be a pain to separate. Thanks for the tips!
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    Charlie said:
    Interesting, I found it a pain to attempt to remove tape after the poster is wet... I always get everything off before wetting. Else, if it requires any physical manipulation you can tear the wet paper...
    I've got some black sticky tape to remove on a OS coming up and I'm guessing it's going to be a sticky mess removing prior to washing...I've also got some paper "masking" type of tape (on my '34 HS) that will need to be steamed soft for removal...now I just need to get a steamer...
    :-?
  • racer59racer59 Member Posts: 89 ✭✭ One-Sheeter
    Charlie said:
    Interesting, I found it a pain to attempt to remove tape after the poster is wet... I always get everything off before wetting. Else, if it requires any physical manipulation you can tear the wet paper...

    I had a snipe that Bestine wouldn't remove. Not even a little. After the initial soak, a steady hand, patience and palette knife removed the snipe smoothly. I do this for all tape now if I'm backing the poster. But yeah, you're right, you need to be very careful. I'd never try it without a palette knife because I'm sure I'd rip the paper. The knife is the key. If you run it slowly and carefully under the tape on a very wet poster, it slowly comes off cleanly. At least that's what's worked for me. I'll try to take pictures next time I get some tape on a poster when I get around to backing.
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin

    That takes guts...my poster was so fragile yesterday I had a whole section separate...it was a yikes moment! Fortunately it went back together...I couldn't imagine attempting to take off tape when it's wet, but when I took it off with the Bestine, a by-product was that bits of paper did peel/tear off and were lost.

     

    Maybe this won't/doesn't happen when it's wet. When is the tape wet enough on the paper? It takes me about 2 hrs 20 mins for my wet work. By the end the paper is really soft and ready to come apart easily...only done two backings, but that's my experience.

  • racer59racer59 Member Posts: 89 ✭✭ One-Sheeter
    I haven't had any problems with the tape removing some of the paper when wet. That's only happened to me working on dry paper. Removing the tape is the first thing I do after the initial soaking of both sides of the poster. I know it's ready when the edge of a palette knife easily slides under the tape without any effort. Think, hot knife thru butter. If for some reason the tape stops wanting to come off, I spray it again with more water and keep spraying until the palette knife can do its thing again. The only type of tape I haven't tried is small pieces of scotch tape. Everything else has been easy, especially masking tape. This is why I couldn't understand why one restorer quoted me more for tape removal since it been pretty easy for me.
  • racer59racer59 Member Posts: 89 ✭✭ One-Sheeter
    Here are examples of the snipe I was referring to. The first shot you can see how the Bestine was not able to remove it. 

    Anyway, I don't want to hijack your thread any longer. Just wanted to show you an example.

    image 

    I had to crop this after picture but you can see the paper and ink stayed in tact
    image


  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    Well, I will have to try that after the initial soak...The tape I had was in fact scotch tape and it was a pain to remove, even soaked with Bestine. Will get palette knives and try. Great job on the snipe removal! Havent any posters with snipes, but looks like a good system. No worries about the thread...its all good info! :D
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,083 admin
    edited April 2015
    The bestine would not remove a water-based adhesive... It makes sense now why you would say to soak it, because most if not all snipes on old posters are water based... But if you have masking or scotch tape on the back, they may come off in the wash but the adhesive might not... I would remove anything that looks like tape before washing... You might think your getting the adhesive and then back the poster but later find it bubble up because the adhesive covered poster won't stick...
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
    www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,083 admin
    You can steam off any snipes or water-based adhesives...
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
    www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,083 admin
    I would say that if you soaked off masking tape that was older the rubber based adhesive stayed on the poster...
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
    www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,083 admin
    Racer are you saying bestine will remove pen??
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
    www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook
  • racer59racer59 Member Posts: 89 ✭✭ One-Sheeter
    I've used Bestine to remove pen, marker and a pastel or crayon. It looked more like crayon but I can't tell for sure. Technically it dosent only remove the ink it also removes some of the paper fibers. I have two backed posters that had masking tape on the back, I just went to take a look at them and they still seem fine. I guess that could change in the future. But it's good information to know
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,083 admin
    Wow!  I need some of the Bestine you have... Mine has never removed paper fiber or been worth a damn removing any type of ink or I wouldn't feel safe using it on the posters... I guess I can recall one poster where I rubbed the hell out of an old scotch tape spot and some of the ink faded.

    Is it brand name "Bestine" or another rubber cement remover?
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
    www.movieposterworks.com  | MPW on Facebook
  • racer59racer59 Member Posts: 89 ✭✭ One-Sheeter
    Yes Bestine brand. Using a Q-tip soaked in Bestine, gently roll the Q-tip over the writing. You'll notice the Q-tip will start to pick up the ink. why it works this way on wet paper I have no clue. Like I mentioned before, too much and you remove too much of the paper and that spot will look lighter than the area around it. I guess I'll photograph this next time I come against it.
  • racer59racer59 Member Posts: 89 ✭✭ One-Sheeter
    Now that I think about this. I suppose it's possible that it wasn't the Bestine doing anything at all. Maybe it was just the fact that I used a wet Q-Tip against wet paper? I just did this via trail and error. I had marker that I was hoping would come off with the bleach and it didn't. I once had pen that didn't come off but I backed it anyway and ruined the job. So When the marker didn't come off I got the idea to see if Bestine would do anything and low and behold that's how it worked for me.
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    So you used Bestine on a Q-Tip when washing your poster? After bleaching? Guess the ink had loosened in the fibers and the Bestine did the rest?...
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    edited April 2015
    Ok a few picts of my first effort at a OS- Before... photo 73611EE5-DE45-43CE-8B94-F022DA3A3E4F_zpsgo5s2n5o.jpg After... photo 08742F06-DD1A-4CA1-984D-8D0A4C30313D_zpskzllyddz.jpg I felt the wet work did wonders to remove the dirt and brighten the paper!
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    The washing of the poster did wonders to remove dirt and grim... photo C6AA1021-6B2D-43A4-8607-0020720EB61B_zpsx55p6syc.jpg Bleaching gave it a new level of brightness! photo 4250F06D-99E0-41DF-89BC-CFDE3BA10991_zps8qc4ubz3.jpg
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    The whole bottom left qtr panel/section separated during wash/removal of Mylar-It took a lot of patience to get the piece back into place prior to laying it down on the masa... photo e18291f5-57c3-4049-9759-bc7ae00ade80_zpsxk5mcdxt.jpg photo 7A1D1B08-5F2B-4ABF-A6F9-07C0BED8EE03_zpstusiegpq.jpg photo E27A38AE-BD7C-4D0D-8E2C-BD974DC2154D_zps94gu8ynu.jpg
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    It has some small fold areas that need filling & color so that will be my first restoration challenges... photo 7A64A527-AC44-4310-AD9C-17030EDDCFC7_zpsmfu0djbi.jpg photo 57DB0721-5D77-417E-9312-4667F01E9D9D_zpsps9galqb.jpg
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 3,581 admin
    I had some difficulty with the masa and it developed a slight crease...ugh! Which you can see on the poster when the light hits it right...but overall I'm very pleased... photo 08742F06-DD1A-4CA1-984D-8D0A4C30313D_zpskzllyddz.jpg
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