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The Eisenhower Linenbacking Experience...

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  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,156 admin
    A few concerns as it was drying...it seemed to develop a streak?? Residue rhat came up after wet work?? I'm not sure what caused this but it has me stumped...Charlie? Notice the "white streaking" on the blue field... photo B478723A-BDDA-4AC5-B48D-6019E72ED326_zpsuiqmxbtl.jpg It does not appear on the other side, which looks good. photo 787F64DB-0080-4C3E-B1CA-FAE68ED21F9E_zpsrasbyqvy.jpg
  • SvenSven Member Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Nice work Mark! Gotta be happy with the bright appearance.. great poster with the shot of Jimmy, and love the red and blue contrast...yeah wonder what the streaking was all about
  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,291 admin
    This is top stuff to see, I am truly impressed Mark.

    Perhaps the white streaks are just where the bleach has bleached out the blue?
    David
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,156 admin
    Thanks guys!-it was almost 3 hours from getting the poster wet to final rolling the poster on the masa paper. My theories for the white streaking are- - it was in the poster and came out of the wash, - bleach (haven't read or seen it happen to others...) -residue from the deacidification bath(although it was rinsed three more times prior to finishing up) - or there was something on the Mylar that was left on the poster just prior to it getting rolled on the masa... ....we'll see what the final product looks like 3 days from now when completely dry...
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    David said:
    This is top stuff to see, I am truly impressed Mark.


    Yes - I am enjoying following your progress vicariously!  :D
    Chris
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,156 admin
    Thanks Chris, it's been fun & certainly challenging! I'm hoping my third try will yield results that don't leave me with more questions...but I'm learning with each project...I want to get the basics down then move onto restoration, then to paper backing-I've got some WC's and Lobby's I want to get backed.
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,381 admin
    A few concerns as it was drying...it seemed to develop a streak?? Residue rhat came up after wet work?? I'm not sure what caused this but it has me stumped...Charlie? Notice the "white streaking" on the blue field... photo B478723A-BDDA-4AC5-B48D-6019E72ED326_zpsuiqmxbtl.jpg It does not appear on the other side, which looks good. photo 787F64DB-0080-4C3E-B1CA-FAE68ED21F9E_zpsrasbyqvy.jpg

    If you take a cotton ball and wet the area does it go back to normal?  If so could just be some excess calcium that has decided to cling to the poster.  I have a solution but let's do that through PM...  If not that means some of the ink was not set and just washed away...
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,381 admin
    600?...oh...back to Lowes...I'll get a razor as well & scrape lightly. Question: if you can't see it from the front to begin with, will it show after backing?
    Missed this... Yes, very good possibility especially after a good bleach.  Remember those magazine ads, you could not see the writing before I bleached them but after the text on the back comes through.
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,156 admin
    edited April 2015
    Thanks. Will try the wet cotton ball tonight. I'll also PM you two pictures of my Cal Hydrox bath-it had a lot of sediment? floating about. Not sure if I need to strain it better. Yeah, I'll likely just give those stamps a light sanding/scraping to reduce possibility of showing after drying.
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,156 admin
    My next backing was a half sheet-Just for You, 1952. Before: photo EE1A44C9-18C0-409D-BE08-4753C999B421_zpsexarxzj5.jpg Backside-had some pen, pencil and grease pencil to work on. photo FE145A8C-68C0-499E-B04D-A506BE89D774_zps4txkekzr.jpg Before photo D87C5837-4751-4FCC-B0D6-55B329FAC6D1_zps7frxiygi.jpg After-writings minimized-grease pencil much harder to remove than I thought. Enough though so it didn't show through after drying. photo 0D944D48-195B-4158-94DD-01F4268B2293_zps7cxveyuj.jpg
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,156 admin
    Other areas-toning, wrinkles, creases...not too bad. photo E96189AB-800F-41DC-B2E4-F10282671120_zpsflysiacs.jpg photo BA2BFF4C-3ED6-44AC-BDC6-E7FB0C362A56_zpsusq4xumj.jpg photo 6BFEB20F-4B85-434E-836D-C4C6FD520B5D_zpst5pnetqr.jpg photo 006048E1-0F10-4394-B111-8ADEAAC5D497_zpstusxdujx.jpg
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,156 admin
    The finished product. It lightened quite well & went down well also. I had some slight separation of one if the fold lines during wash. photo CD5085DE-A2B7-4792-9EF2-C92A27FDA905_zpsi9kdutib.jpg
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,156 admin
    edited April 2015
    Upon closer inspection you can see the issues I had during wash. In three major places I had some paper loss in very noticeable areas. Fairly certain after feedback from Charlie that I know the culprit. My bleaching process lasted too long. Adjustments will be made on the next one sheet. Areas of paper loss- photo BA2E6F85-94C1-4893-8718-2886B4BCA79F_zpsjt1nvwga.jpg photo 5D227299-2D7B-4002-A06D-CF2D3B809590_zps3hi6jkry.jpg Poster not a total loss. But areas that will need restoration that didn't need them before.
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,156 admin
    There were some areas what turned out looking quite nicely (have to find a bright side). photo 38833FB3-D72E-4948-9CBA-2AAFACD7E017_zpswvpeznpp.jpg photo 17E580FF-2547-4A14-8B5B-F51FDD354C22_zpsdvhzywfk.jpg photo A7975612-43EE-4822-AD9F-38BB4CF667EC_zps9uqggygp.jpg photo 3BBB5C1D-0588-4DC4-B038-2E788DE8372F_zpsgxdmalyn.jpg
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,156 admin
    Overall, very small success in my quest to back a poster with no issues, this was only third time, so have to keep it all in perspective. photo CD5085DE-A2B7-4792-9EF2-C92A27FDA905_zpsi9kdutib.jpg
  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,291 admin
    Awesome stuff Mark, the poster really pops now. What do you do about those minor ripples?

    And do you do a little sanding on those rough bits and then add colour?
    David
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,156 admin
    Thanks David. My restoration experience is limited, but yes, I'll gently sand down or remove the rough areas. I've been reading about using methyl cellulose as an in-fill, and then paint. The paper loss isn't all the way thru the paper, just surface loss, I'm guessing complete paper in-fill may not work best. More learning...
  • MattMatt Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 5,204 admin
  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,291 admin
    Well it's certainly been a skillful dive into the deep end thus far.
    David
  • SvenSven Member Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
    Respect! Well done Mark :)
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,156 admin
    Thanks guys. Appreciate the supportive words. The resto work is about 3-4 weeks away. Really want to have solid wet work before I move into the next step. My goal has never been to just be able to back posters. Although I have no objections to the "European style" of linen backing posters, I want to be able to have the skills to take a poster from its raw state to the completely restored product.
  • CharlieCharlie Member, Administrator, Moderator, Game Master Posts: 6,381 admin
    Hey now that I see the before pics and it being a half sheet, those issue may have already been underlying from internal delamination of the card stock, not necessarily your procedure.  I thought you were working on a OS...
    That second mouse in the bowl of cream we call life...
  • MirosaeMirosae Member Posts: 851 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    I really never understood why it is called ''European style'', really it is not restoration, at most it is conservation/ preservation, but I am not keen on it either. It ''preserves'' the dirt and mouldy look of the poster.

    I think that the work you guys do is much better if i may say so - big congrats
    Rosa -
    Love some paper
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,156 admin
    Yeah I was surprised as well, and that may well be the case, but i will definitely be changing my procedures as we discussed the next time i back. I'm planning on working in a one sheet this weekend and will adjust my times accordingly...paper is durable, but it's all very different!
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,156 admin
    edited April 2015
    Mirosae said:
    I really never understood why it is called ''European style'', really it is not restoration, at most it is conservation/ preservation, but I am not keen on it either. It ''preserves'' the dirt and mouldy look of the poster.

    I think that the work you guys do is much better if i may say so - big congrats

    Thanks Rosa! I'm not sure why it's called "European Style?" Is that how most conservation/restorers leave a poster when they back? I used that phrase cause were all familiar with EMP. After backing just a few pieces, I can see why people might prefer it, but I wants posters to be somewhat restored. The "it looks really good from viewing distance," but upon closet inspection you might see signs of restoration. That being said...Charlie's Breakfast, looks cool with the tape markings. Guessing they won't do further harm to the poster.
  • MirosaeMirosae Member Posts: 851 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    Hi Mark, yes, my post was meant more as a ''criticism'' of ''bad'' restoration that some people in Europe call ''European Style''. I too have seen minimal work on posters ''European Style''  that look superb (just bathing and backing). But I have also seen, more often than not, really poor restoration being carried out in Europe where you can see the dirt, mould on the poster - and they charge you a fortune! So apologies, I did not mean to sound negative about that resto that though minimal might enhance the poster, but the poor one which I normally associate with ''European Style''.


    Rosa -
    Love some paper
  • 110x75110x75 Member, Sarli Connoisseur Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭✭ Three-Sheeter
  • EisenhowerEisenhower Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,156 admin
    Mirosae said:
    Hi Mark, yes, my post was meant more as a ''criticism'' of ''bad'' restoration that some people in Europe call ''European Style''. I too have seen minimal work on posters ''European Style''  that look superb (just bathing and backing). But I have also seen, more often than not, really poor restoration being carried out in Europe where you can see the dirt, mould on the poster - and they charge you a fortune! So apologies, I did not mean to sound negative about that resto that though minimal might enhance the poster, but the poor one which I normally associate with ''European Style''.


    I didn't think you were sounding mean or negative. I think it's likely true; some who back posters do not do a good job at restoration. I would feel its a waste of money to buy a poorly restored poster because my first concern was has it been conserved properly. That's why I haven't attempted any significant restoration yet. I want to have this first process down before moving on to the more difficult area of restoration. I remember reading where Dario said, restoration begins with a properly conserved/backed poster. All in all, the amount of restoration given to a poster depends on the one who wants it backed.   
  • DavidDavid Member Posts: 10,291 admin
    Could be 'European' style is just a phrase coined by EMP for ease of understanding and it stuck? Unfortunately EMP chooses not to contribute to discussion in forums so we may never know where the phrase came from.
    David
  • BruceBruce Member, Captain Movie Poster Posts: 916 ✭✭✭ Daybiller
    I stopped posting here because trolls post after me here. Forums are supposed to be fun,and they aren't for me when I have trolls following me.

    The answer to your question here is that the late Jose Carpio, owner of Cinemonde, and one of the pioneers of the hobby, always called it that. He used to go to Europe extensively, and he said all the leading dealers there in the 1970s linenbacked in this way. I just use his name for it.

    It is a lot like "half-sheet". They are NEVER called that in pressbooks. It is a name dealers came up with. But what would be the point of trying to change it when it is so widely understood?

    Or "The Other Company". Thanks to Walter Reuben, another pioneer of the hobby, we now know the name of the actual company, what would be the point of trying to change it from "The Other Company",  when it is so widely understood?

    If trolls post after me, I won't post again. Thanks.
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